Listen up cis people! Educate yourselves!

[BettyBooper]

Read this and be told!

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2024/sep/30/will-ferrell-harper-steele-netflix-documentary

The other is that their curiosity about cis people extends as far as wanting to know what cis people think about them. Narcissistic, much?

@RoyalCorgi nails it.

"Enough about me, let's talk about you, cis people... what do you think of me?"

“For our own part, trans women are curious about cisgender folk, too. We want to know things like: do you actually think I’m female, or am I just a deluded guy in a dress to you?”

100% a deluded guy in a dress.

Next question?

Veronica very much saying the quiet parts out loud in that article:

very few people stop to consider that a man trying to transform into a woman is in such an infinitely more disempowered position than they are.

why is that mate?

It’s uniquely vulnerable, to feminize your appearance and your personality

tell me more about this feminine personality Veronica you absolute sexist.

I don't go around wondering if people think I really am a woman or just a deluded guy in a dress. Has never crossed my mind. If he's having these thoughts does that mean that he sees himself as just a deluded guy in a dress? If that's the case then why the fuck should others go along with his nonsense.

Reading something so clearly written by a man enjoying the idea of being a vulnerable woman…..shudder

Oh dear.

Do we all get to make films? Mine's going to be quite short and along the lines of look love, do you, I don't really care, unless you stomp those size 13s and giant ego all over my rights and the rights of other women and girls.

And it's not really healthy or normal to issue a users manual to random strangers on exactly how you'd like them to enable you. Go pay someone by the hour for that kind of crap.

Case in point, halfway through the movie, Ferrell point-blank asks Steele “How are your boobs?” and then proceeds to prod her for the details of what it was like to wake up from breast augmentation surgery. He follows that up by essentially asking her if she’s going to get a vagina. I really can’t imagine anything that Steele could demand of the cis world that’s remotely comparable to that. And if she ever tried to do so, it could be an extremely dangerous moment for her.

Every woman who has ever been pregnant must have shared my hollow laugh at this. While I was preggers I had a professional client ask me if I was going to have a vaginal birth on our first meeting - and almost all the women I know who have been pregnant have been asked something equally inappropriate.

And are ‘cis’ people really that curious about trans women? Having an opinion doesn’t equal curiosity.

Yes, it's confusing, the idea that women aren't accustomed to having to cope with intrusive personal questions and comments on their genitals.

Nearly every woman I know has not only since childhood had comments on and demands to see her genitals, comments on and men groping her breasts and other body parts, but has grown up with media, advertising and male conversation fetishising her body. Then the additional comments on breasts and vagina during and after pregnancy.

No, I think it’s quite clear that some GC posters on MN are very happy to have an opinion without ever actually having spoken to a trans person.

This is such a completely Guardian article. Self -pitying, narcissistic, completely tone deaf.

TofuTart · Today 12:01

dottiehens · Today 11:57

+ + May be time to not watch any films with Will F. + +

I'm NOT boycotting Elf, it's my happy Christmas place!

My 11 year old won't let me avoid it....

And many posters, me included, were all open minded and happily mindlessly supportive until we encountered males with different identities, a lot of entitlement, and a wish to behave very badly while ill treating and subordinating women.

*Edited to add I have no idea why that has underlined itself and can't turn it off.

My education came directly from people who identified as trans, thanks. It was very eye opening. But not being co dependent, and having healthy boundaries, it was not effective in gaining my unconditional enabling and submission, or sacrificing my own rights and those of others.

I have no problem whatever with how people choose to live their lives, unless they choose to treat other people badly, and to behave badly. In the case of this particular group and some members of it: really quite staggeringly badly.

Luckily I don’t fit into that category as I’ve worked with and have known several TW as do most posters here

But do carry on with the idea that if ooonly we knew some TW we’d feel differently

I do and I don’t

I don't need to watch a movie or indeed speak to trans people to have an opinion on males in female spaces. Just like I don't need to speak with nazis to have views on nazism.
I don't support males using female rights. I don't need to be 'educated' any further than I am on the issue because my education has already enabled me to understand that there are two sexes, that we live in a patriarchy, that males are bigger, stronger, faster, more criminal and more dangerous than females, and that social mores are interlinked with capitalism and media.
I have also never gone back in time to speak to Galileo, but all in all, I think the evidence suggests that the earth goes round the sun.
Males telling me they're females really isn't going to add anything to my life.

Mmmm

I’m not sure meeting more people will change my opinion that that article was written by a person with very sexist views and an extremely creepy obsession with the idea of being vulnerable

Another one here that knows a transwoman. He's actually pretty reasonable and hates what TRAs do as it's harmful to trans people. Agrees that transwomen shouldn't be put in women's prisons and feels that someone who doesn't feel disgust at their body isn't trans. He's celibate as he can't bear to use his penis for sex. Not sure how his wife feels but she's not normally backwards in coming forwards. Amazingly enough, he knows that I'm GC and we get along fine.

Please don't refer to me as a cisgender person. I am a woman. End of.

This is really interesting - his total ignorance of what women are, all that we have to go through in our lives and then huffing about not feeling safe or comfortable - he wouldn't last a single day as a woman! I feel embarrassed for him.

And also, why can't Ferrell ask these questions? It's his best friend, they've known each other for 30 years? Surely these are exactly the kind of things best friends would talk about.

Obviously it's verboten to ask questions of TIMs, which is a shame as the whole gig would fall apart with a good questioning.

"For our own part, trans women are curious about cisgender folk, too. We want to know things like: do you actually think I’m female, or am I just a deluded guy in a dress to you?"

{From the article}

Well, now you mention it ~

Not many people believe that XY can change their XY makeup to XX.

I worked with a Transwoman. I spoke to him many times. He detransitioned two years down the line. I still think males should stay out of female spaces.

I'll watch it because I quite like a lot of the SNL crew.

I caught a quick glimpse of Tina Fey and a photo of Amy Poehler in the trailer. I really hope I don't find out they have feet of clay.

I did educate myself and that's why I want to see balanced protections of everyone's needs.

If not prioritising transactivists over women and girls at every turn, in every situation and not agreeing that trans people's needs and wants are more important than women's and girls' needs and wants makes me a 'terf', then I will happily accept that label.

Well, I have spoken to plenty, but even if I hadn't, there's also plenty of other men I've never spoken to but I don't want them in female only spaces either.