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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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11
roseyposey · 30/09/2024 14:16

The title gave me the ick and the first sentence made me want to scream in irritation. What a pair of absolute dicks.

BettyBooper · 30/09/2024 14:16

unmemorableusername · 30/09/2024 13:53

I assumed that was a sarcastic op!

It definitely was!!

OP posts:
Chessfan · 30/09/2024 14:16

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/09/2024 11:34

This article is golden.

"For our own part, trans women are curious about cisgender folk, too. We want to know things like: do you actually think I’m female, or am I just a deluded guy in a dress to you?"

You don't actually want someone to feel they can freely answer that, do you?

I literally have zero interest, and why would you think I do?

Wear a dress, wear a spacesuit, what do I care?

You know why trans men feel so pissed and discriminated against? I personally think it's because when they stick on a dress they get 1% of the daily discrimination women have to live with ALL the time. They suddenly aren't favoured in all ways, automatically, as men tend to be, and they presume it's because they're trans. NO you're just getting a taste of what it is to be a woman. Welcome to our world 😆

unsync · 30/09/2024 14:18

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 30/09/2024 13:40

But, unlike women, if trans women really don't like it they can just go back to presenting as male and enjoying again. (I'm not sure why this suggestion tends to elicit shocked gasps when I say it to trans activists.)

Yes, obviously these men have choices that women do not. It is after all a man's world.

roseyposey · 30/09/2024 14:19

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Chessfan · 30/09/2024 14:19

Anastomosisrex · 30/09/2024 13:49

Also worth noting that Ferrell has no skin in the game.

He can happily poke his friend's boobs and ask all the questions with nothing more than prurient interest and bon homie, it's never going to affect him. He is not sexually vulnerable to his friend and the men right behind him, it's not him who will have to take his clothes off in front of said friend whether they consent or not, or lose access to the space, plus any other man because if it's his dear little friend its every bloke.

He and his friend aren't in the least bothered about affecting women, or the dehumanising of labelling them convenient to his friend's needs, or expecting if they're just trained and informed on his friend's wishes they have nothing better to do with their time and lives than run to provide him with the services he requires.

It's not a pretty picture either are making of themselves, and hugely lacking in basic self awareness or any real concept of women as equally human.

I love Will Ferrell and I believe he made this with the best of intentions but I have to agree with this post, it is 100% male privilege on his side that be absolutely doesn't have to even let these thoughts cross his mind. It's the only Will Ferrell program I'll never watch.

moomin34 · 30/09/2024 14:20

Goody2ShoesAndTheFilthyBeast · 30/09/2024 13:28

I did educate myself and that's why I want to see balanced protections of everyone's needs.

If not prioritising transactivists over women and girls at every turn, in every situation and not agreeing that trans people's needs and wants are more important than women's and girls' needs and wants makes me a 'terf', then I will happily accept that label.

Pretty much exactly what I said when my DH suggested I watch this.
I was in the TWAW/Be Kind/JKR is evil camp...until I educated myself. Educating myself (on the insistence of trans people), led to me accepting that, apparently, I'm a TERF.

All for people wearing what they want, wearing or not wearing makeup, doing whatever hobbies they enjoy, or whatever else makes them happy. I'll use the names that people want to use. Thinking that any of these things are inherently male or female is ridiculous and I will defend people's right to express themselves however they want to.

What I won't accept is men claiming to actually be women based only on a 'feeling', then demanding access to single sex spaces because of that feeling.

The only things women have in common are our physical biology, and the ways we have been socialised and treated differently since birth as a result of that physical reality. There is no 'woman's brain', there are no women's interests or hobbies, and the only thing that really defines clothes as being 'for women' is that they are designed to fit female bodies.
A belief that you could be born with a male body, be raised as a boy and live as a man, but somehow "feel" female can only ever be based on stereotypes, and that feels incredibly regressive. I can't support that.

I'm in favour of unisex third spaces, so anybody who doesn't want to use a single-sex space has somewhere they can feel more comfortable.
But there are situations when women need single sex spaces, for reasons of safety and dignity (or even just solidarity from others who share their lived experience). Those reasons exist because of biological reality, and nothing else.

(Apologies for the rant. I've not posted here before, and I can't talk to anyone irl about this!)

Ereshkigalangcleg · 30/09/2024 14:24

I hate the term CIS - is that meant to be some sort of acronym? Why can't we be people rather than 'CIS' people?

The acronym I personally use it to denote is "compliant individual signalling" as a former MNer called it. Because it's not a label most people apply to themselves, it's a recently invented label trans rights activists apply to others, and some other people use to signal their "inclusive" trans allyship. But it's a Latin prefix most commonly used in chemistry.

It means "on the same side". Trans I think is "on the opposite side". I just ignore it really, for it to make sense as a descriptive term for a "non trans" person would mean that a "trans woman" was a female person who identifies as a man.

Alucard55 · 30/09/2024 14:24

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I think that would be an excellent badge and 1 I would definitely wear!

AngelinaFibres · 30/09/2024 14:28

Alucard55 · 30/09/2024 14:24

I think that would be an excellent badge and 1 I would definitely wear!

Can we have tee shirts with this on too

Odense · 30/09/2024 14:28

Alucard55 · 30/09/2024 14:24

I think that would be an excellent badge and 1 I would definitely wear!

I Wonder if Birdy Rose is on here?

Alucard55 · 30/09/2024 14:28

AngelinaFibres · 30/09/2024 14:28

Can we have tee shirts with this on too

Yes!

roseyposey · 30/09/2024 14:32

Odense · 30/09/2024 14:28

I Wonder if Birdy Rose is on here?

I have no T shirt or badge making skills, alas, but if Birdy or any other skilled craftswoman would like to create bags etc with this on then they’re most welcome!!

Abhannmor · 30/09/2024 14:38

Cis has the same effect on me now as 'I am not a racist but...'

radishess · 30/09/2024 14:41

so, Harper Steele.
I looked them up under their old name and couldn't find a thing. I haven't watched the documentary. Does Harper talk about their family/wife/kids etc? At 61, they've got a lot of history behind them, curious as to whether this is discussed. Wikipedia seems to suggest they arrived on earth in 2022.

roseyposey · 30/09/2024 14:44

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Thingybob · 30/09/2024 14:44

radishess · 30/09/2024 14:41

so, Harper Steele.
I looked them up under their old name and couldn't find a thing. I haven't watched the documentary. Does Harper talk about their family/wife/kids etc? At 61, they've got a lot of history behind them, curious as to whether this is discussed. Wikipedia seems to suggest they arrived on earth in 2022.

I haven't seen the documentary but it seems that Harper has at least two daughters as they are seen talking to them in the clip shown at the beginning of this interview.

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Getonwitit · 30/09/2024 14:46

I have been educated but thank you for the invite. I managed a B+ in Biology and a B in APH so i am pretty clued up on the Human body. I did learn that those born with a prostate and a penis and also went through male puberty were males and those that didn't were female. Pretty sure that is a fact not a lie.
Now as for blokes that wish they were women, crack on, i don't care what you wear or if you want to call yourself Lucy, not bothered but don't ask me to lie and call you a woman or she or her, i will stick to using male, man, he and him because that is what you are even if you prefer stiletto's to Oxford brogues.
I would like to ask all of you to be decent and fair. Can you be decent ? Can you be fair? If you were a decent human you wouldn't want to make a 10 year girl frightened by using the female toilets. If you were a decent human you wouldn't make a 13 year old uncomfortable and embarrassed by using the ladies changing rooms. If you were fair you wouldn't enter a competition that is for women only. If you were fair you would leave that pregnant woman to swim in peace whilst she gets used to the changes in her body. If you are decent and fair you wouldn't encroach on women. Can you be decent and fair ? Only your actions will show the world what type of person you are.

AngelinaFibres · 30/09/2024 14:58

Getonwitit · 30/09/2024 14:46

I have been educated but thank you for the invite. I managed a B+ in Biology and a B in APH so i am pretty clued up on the Human body. I did learn that those born with a prostate and a penis and also went through male puberty were males and those that didn't were female. Pretty sure that is a fact not a lie.
Now as for blokes that wish they were women, crack on, i don't care what you wear or if you want to call yourself Lucy, not bothered but don't ask me to lie and call you a woman or she or her, i will stick to using male, man, he and him because that is what you are even if you prefer stiletto's to Oxford brogues.
I would like to ask all of you to be decent and fair. Can you be decent ? Can you be fair? If you were a decent human you wouldn't want to make a 10 year girl frightened by using the female toilets. If you were a decent human you wouldn't make a 13 year old uncomfortable and embarrassed by using the ladies changing rooms. If you were fair you wouldn't enter a competition that is for women only. If you were fair you would leave that pregnant woman to swim in peace whilst she gets used to the changes in her body. If you are decent and fair you wouldn't encroach on women. Can you be decent and fair ? Only your actions will show the world what type of person you are.

All of this. If transwomen( men) had grown up as biological women and had had the experiences every woman on here will have had growing up they would understand why women don't want biological men in their spaces/ sports etc. But they didn't, they grew up as men and therefore expect that ,because they want something, women will just roll over and give it to them. They don't like it when we say " No, you aren't a woman, please go away".

timenowplease · 30/09/2024 15:01

Thingybob · 30/09/2024 14:44

I haven't seen the documentary but it seems that Harper has at least two daughters as they are seen talking to them in the clip shown at the beginning of this interview.

Christ, the faces of the two daughters!

"At first I wrestled with why am I doing this"

Good question.

JanesLittleGirl · 30/09/2024 15:03

For our own part, trans women are curious about cisgender folk, too. We want to know things like: do you actually think I’m female, or am I just a deluded guy in a dress to you?

I'm confused. I thought that transwomen had exactly the same thoughts as us. Why would you be curious about people who are exactly the same as you in every respect?

Lentilweaver · 30/09/2024 15:08

AngelinaFibres · 30/09/2024 14:58

All of this. If transwomen( men) had grown up as biological women and had had the experiences every woman on here will have had growing up they would understand why women don't want biological men in their spaces/ sports etc. But they didn't, they grew up as men and therefore expect that ,because they want something, women will just roll over and give it to them. They don't like it when we say " No, you aren't a woman, please go away".

Transwomen in other cultures aren't as entitled. I have spent time in both Thailand and India which have many transwomen. However they stick to their own spaces and sports. Their only ask is dressing in a feminine way, which I am fine with.

AngelinaFibres · 30/09/2024 15:10

Lentilweaver · 30/09/2024 15:08

Transwomen in other cultures aren't as entitled. I have spent time in both Thailand and India which have many transwomen. However they stick to their own spaces and sports. Their only ask is dressing in a feminine way, which I am fine with.

Absolutely.

Britinme · 30/09/2024 15:26

I note there are no comments allowed on that article. Gee, I wonder why.

BroFace · 30/09/2024 15:30

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