Trans woman murdered in Georgia, and an assault in England

[Christinapple]

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/world/trans-model-killed-in-tbilisi-after-georgia-passes-law-imposing-lgbtq-restrictions/ar-AA1qTM6V

A trans woman was murdered in Georgia (the country), just after a "pro family" anti-LGBT bill was passed. The law bans same-sex marriage, gender-affirming treatments, pride books and events etc.

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/dangerous-far-teenagers-brutal-assault-171552704.html

In Swansea, England a trans girl was attacked in a park by a man "using marital art moves". It happened in May but has came to light now after his phone was searched by anti-terrorism officers. The attacker is far-right, glorifies acts of terrorism, is anti-immigration and yes homophobic and transphobic.

Any lessons to be learned from these 2 cases? Do anti-LGBT laws and over-indulgence to online far-right material result in violence and people being hurt or killed?

I see another article has been added to this thread.
It's a sad fact that there are nasty people out there doing nasty things. Whether victims are trans(-identified) or not, society has some awful examples of this.
As PPs have said though, the problem here seems to be one of forced-teaming, where crimes against transwomen are positioned as a subset of crimes against women.
The public then has its heartstrings pulled because of the "marginalised few" framing that this creates.

Whilst I do feel incredible sympathy towards victims of violent crimes and murder (male or female, trans or not), I strongly object to this manipulation of my sympathy in the press. And to the appropriation of VAWG. Yes, there are people who believe that TWAW but there are also people who don't. When reporting on VAWG it's important to stick to facts, not beliefs.

Here's a great example of the nonsense currently coming out of the press:

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2024/sep/18/teresa-margolles-fourth-plinth-review-transgender

In particular, the screenshot below. Obviously, Jonathan Jones? No. Stop trying to gaslight me into upholding a belief that I don't. I do not believe that everyone has a gender identity, ergo I do not believe that these unfortunate victims are women. So including them in the 20,000 offends me. It's an appropriation.

Oh and 🤢😢 to using fluids from dead bodies as part of art (the article says that this artist does this in other art projects). That is both disgusting and incredibly disrespectful to those who have died. When I read it, it reminded me of the handbag straps that I saw in Auschwitz, that had been woven from the hair of dead victims of the atrocities committed there.

I don't think anyone is arguing against safeguarding trans identified individuals.
I'm arguing against women and girls being used as human shields and/or validation tools on their behalf.
Each and every murder is a tragedy. Male violence is a scourge on humanity.

I don’t think anyone is arguing for that either.

But OP clearly does believe that GC feminists/terves/Mumsnetters are responsible for inciting crimes against transgender people, otherwise why come here to scold us for male violence?

Very striking.

Funny, I could say the same about gender critical activists who would appear to relish at the opportunity to report back here or on twitter anytime a trans or trans-ally has been accused or suspected or something.

There are a tonne of men and some women who aren't trans (I'm not allowed to say the word for that on here for some reason) commit horrible crimes, many sexual and many against women and children every day. But for some reason crimes are no longer of interest to mumsnet feminist board users/jk rowling unless a trans person is somehow involved?

@Christinapple I think you are intentionally misrepresenting us. We absolutely DO post and petition against all of those crimes you say we are not interested in - most of us are involved in WRN and similar organisations, local political parties and speak with our MPs and police commissioners regularly about those incidents. It is precisely because of our knowledge of the statistics and the failure of the local police and government bodies to prioritise the huge and every growing issue of MVAWG that we are peeved that every single crime involving a transperson, however tangentially, is headlined in SM.

The issue is that you, and others like you, only look for the threads where trans victims are highlighted so you can play this game of ‘GC women only care if there is a trans person because they’re bigots’. You have no idea who we are and what we are doing off line to work with vulnerable women and girls, to enhance the lives of young women in our local communities or what our own personal experiences are as actual victims of such crimes.

Funny, I could say the same about gender critical activists who would appear to relish at the opportunity to report back here or on twitter anytime a trans or trans-ally has been accused or suspected or something.

Because apparently 'it never happens'. They just want to be in a female space merely to pee/get changed and their reasons for being in such spaces is never ever nefarious.

You don't need 'a word for that' we all understand perfectly well what men and women means.

I'm not sure what you're expecting from the 'Feminism Sex and Gender' board but yes it is likely to be about gender issues as that was what it was separated out for. The Feminism chat board has plenty on male violence and rape, such as the horrendous crimes against Gisele Pelicot if that's what you're interested in discussing. I didn't think so.....

Oh, I think women are expected to centre trans individuals at all times, in rape crisis centres, in changing rooms, in schools. It's no wonder there's the same expectation on a feminism board on a site for women. Entitlement, displayed bold as brass. No surprise there.

Male violence is the issue. Trans identified men commit sexual and violent offences at at least the same rate as other men. They are currently being allowed into women's toilets, changing rooms, prisons and rape crisis centres even though their offending rate shows they are just as likely to be a danger to women as any other man. This is a particular issue at the moment but it is not the only area of women's rights that most of us are fighting for.

The word you're looking for is women. Look it up.

What a bonkers assertion.

Posters on this board regularly talk about lots of different examples of VAWG. Many involve men who haven't got a transgender identity as well as those who do.
Unfortunately, whenever women try to talk about VAWG they are targeted as transphobes (even if they aren't talking about TW) e.g. the FiLiA conference, to name but one.

Have you missed the discussion about Gisèle Pelicot, drugged by her husband and raped at least 83 times?

The ongoing discussion about Neil Gaiman, famous author accused of sexual abuse, and his refusal to speak about the allegations?

The athlete Rebecca Cheptegei, the athlete set on fire and killed by her ex?

These are crimes that have been much discussed on here recently that spring to mind. We talk about crimes against women, as this is a feminist board. These crimes are overwhelmingly committed by men (however they identify). You may notice the three recent ones I mentioned don't involve trans people

Horrific that two people were murdered and I feel for their family and friends having to deal with this.
As far as I can see, the lesson learned is the same as always - men are violent.

But for some reason crimes are no longer of interest to mumsnet feminist board users/jk rowling unless a trans person is somehow involved?

In case you haven't noticed, you're on a Sex and Gender discussion board, so it shouldn't come as a surprise that most threads discuss topics relating to that.

Do you haunt the Doghouse board to complain that they don't focus on cats enough for your liking?

Anyway, in case you've also failed to notice (understandable, as you've been so busy excusing male TRA violence against women again) :

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5165484-gisele-pelicot-utterly-floored-by-this?page=1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5169596-i-hate-it-when-they-name-a-law-after-a-woman-domestic-abuse-specialists-in-999-rooms

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5170036-donkey-charity-receives-more-donations-than-four-leading-domestic-abuse-charities-combined

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5170099-depressing-male-behaviour-and-apologists

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5168328-mayor-belittling-gisele-pelicots-rapes?page=1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5171406-for-the-first-time-the-international-criminal-court-has-concluded-that-an-armed-group-specifically-targeted-women

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5168758-mohamed-el-fayed?page=1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5169811-david-carrick-victims-are-crowdfunding

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5170209-times-girls-aged-14-now-make-up-the-most-common-group-to-report-rape-to-the-police?page=1

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5168878-the-national-shame-of-englands-maternity-service-harm-normalised

All nowt to do with trans.

You're not correct on this. The pp has kindly posted some links for you.

There are plenty of threads and upset about general male violence against women.

Which does actually feed into women and girls needing single sex spaces

’But for some reason crimes are no longer of interest to mumsnet feminist board users/jk rowling unless a trans person is somehow involved?‘

Given that J.K. Rowling funded an entire rape crisis centre from her own money that’s a pretty silly thing to try to claim.

Sorry @EasternStandard what am I not correct on? My post was aimed at the OP.

You don't get it.

You just...don't...get....it.

It's not about 'trans' per se. It's about MALES. Males committing offences, mainly against women and children, and us understandably not wanting males in our safe single sex spaces.

MALES.

Not 'trans'.

But M.A.L.E.S. Males.

Fair enough. I took your post to mean women on here generally

I agree with you the op should look at some of the extreme crimes that face women daily

I would add the horrific and brutal violence against Kristina Joksimovic former model, too much to talk about on here

Giulia Cecchettin in Italy whose murder by her ex sparked protests

And so many more

Don't worry @EasternStandard I don't make sense to myself half the time. Mostly due to the very sex-based condition of menopause 😁

As usual, our fruity friend has it the wrong way around.

Women don't think that all trans women are a threat.

We know that some are and therefore they should not be a sacred caste, exempt from the rules (legal and societal) that apply to all men, however they identify.

There should be no difference in how men are treated, however they identify. This is because some men, of any identity, pose a threat, and rules exist to keep women and children safe.

How very unusual for women on the sex and gender board to talk about the only subset of male murderers and rapists given unfettered access to vulnerable women and girls.

I know, we are just so unkind! Why won't we just roll over and let them take whatever they want from us? Bad women!