"Trump is the only hope for the world. I hope Americans can see this."

[crimplepop]

KJK going off on one again. Can you see it yet?

We could go back and forth all day like this, Tempest. You've made your views known and I thank you for that and for the discussion, but we're not getting anywhere with it.

RaspberryParade

As women we are constantly warning each other about narcissists and sociopaths and yet insanely, KJK urging women to vote for him exactly.

Go back 5 or 6 years ago there is no way women on FWR would have been supporting DT. Convince yourself all you want, but a man who says "grab em by the pussy" is no friend to women.

@Mayyouleave 'Convince yourself all you want, but a man who says "grab em by the pussy" is no friend to women.'
Thats what I'm saying,no?

Yes.
My post underneath was to all the women here who are dismissing and handwaving away the issues with DT and KJKs endorsement of him.

They're filled with all the same stuff because all the same posters got defensive, as they do. And extrapolated "KJK said XYZ" to mean something about them personally.

An interesting, novel twist would be if the feminists on this board had said, straight up, yeah, that's mad, bad or brilliant, and here's why. Instead it became the same old defensiveness, dismissiveness, whataboutery, Ad hominems and hypotheticals. Anything to avoid discussing KJK's tweet endorsing the rapist Donald Trump who plans to reduce women's bodily autonomy once elected.

Two tier policing appears to mean very different things to different groups of people. To some it is bias in favour of Muslim men, to some it is bias against women, to some it bias against Jewish people, to some it is bias against a particular class. I fail to see that some of these disparate groups attending a rally organised by "Tommy Robinson" achieve any aim other than providing their organiser with yet more publicity.

@lifeturnsonadime

It’s the allegation that people are falling over to justify trumpism. I read that as you saying anyone who fails to publicly debounce everything KJK stands for is trying to justify trumpism.
Perhaps I misunderstood.

You don't have to denounce everything KJK stands for. She does some amazing things, and has given a voice to women who otherwise may not have been heard. However, some of the things she does and her current direction is concerning. If people aren't concerned about that, or agree with it, then yes - they're justifying Trumpism.

@NotBadConsidering

No, I am here for education about the posters here. Like the OP who hasn’t been back which has been conveniently ignored by most. Usually if an OP doesn’t engage then the thread is (should be) ignored, But threads on this topic aren’t, they are regularly perpetuated by people. And certain posters only pop up on threads about KJK, or threads about right wing vs left wing. I like to see patterns and posting histories. It’s helpful even when people name change. I’m interested in what’s behind it, and I am also interested (as of earlier this year) in the fact it adds to the data to be scraped by certain people and what tactics might be behind that.

You've discovered that certain users have preferences? Topic interests? Why should this bother you? You have an interest in feminism; I also have an interest in feminism, but also politics, and how social media has deeply influenced both.

I'm also a student of posting history and patterns, BTW, and the tactics regularly used by other posters to shutter discussion. I can usually ID a poster if they name change and post on another board, and I don't even use MN that much.

If more illustration of how odd KJK is on this issue, here it is. Faced with the end of abortion rights, and a fascist dictator in the White House, that's what KJK would choose over Kamala Harris (if she even could). I'd say she is certainly being funded by the US Conservative right and giving them clicks via her social media.

Anonymous' (.@fineirishterf) made this comment in KJK's Twitter:
"The alternative is a sadistic pathological liar. A rapist, woman-hating , dementing, wannabe fascist dictator, who could change his mind in a moment about supporting men in womanface. He will end all abortion rights in the US. He will also destroy any semblance of democracy."

KJK replied:
"Even if that was all true, he’s still better than Harris."

And extrapolated "KJK said XYZ" to mean something about them personally.

No, there is the implication that because she said something, by association everyone who doesn’t condemn her for this and everything else is “aligned” with her or Trump or TR or whatever the right wing bogeyman on the month is. It’s tedious.

An interesting, novel twist would be if the feminists on this board had said, straight up, yeah, that's mad, bad or brilliant, and here's why

People frequently say they don’t agree with her on this, that or the other but it’s never enough. In my opinion, what motivates threads like this is the desire to see complete capitulation about KJK, to “win” the argument that she’s a bad ‘un, and until such capitulation is seen from everyone, threads like this will keep popping up. What motivates this, in my opinion, is a trans activist method of trying to tar all opposition to their ideology as being wrought from the same position. Sling enough mud and hope that opposition to their sexist ideology will wither away. It’s so transparent and as I have said already, boring and trite. There’s no way to argue their ideology positively, so instead it’s best to play the man (metaphorically speaking) and not the ball. If KJK “falls” then they think they have a chance to convince people their ideology is good. It’s been going on for years. “Take out the big players.” Stock, Glinner, JKR, whoever.

She’s just one person of billions on the planet who oppose a sexist, regressive, homophobic ideology and even if everyone here does capitulate to their will that she is the worst person in the world, the opposition to that sexist, regressive, homophobic ideology lead and supported by many different amazing people will continue along just fine. It’s utter desperation to think otherwise.

Does anyone really claim that though?

KJK's statement seems extremely hyperbolic to me, but I don't think I'd interpret her, or most other people I hear say they'll vote for Trump, as saying they like or approve of him personally. Or that he is a friend to women.

It's a statement about who they think will be the best political outcome, of the available choices. (Or sometimes, least worse outcome.) That doesn't always mean the nicest person, or even morally most upright person. People can be real knobs or morally questionable, but effective leaders, or lead an effective team, or be somewhat less shit than the other option.

People here making this argument get very tied up on Trump will screw over abortion rights, and Harris will somehow preserve or even improve them. I don't think it's likely to make a difference one way or another, it's been kicked to the states and neither Harris nor Trump will be able to influence much. (I doubt Trump wants to, I don't think he cares much personally and it would lose him more than he would gain politically.) So it's an irrelevancy in practical terms.

I do think that Trump or Harris could make a big difference on gender questions and both are likely to try and do so. Harris because she is a True Believer and so are her base supporters, and Trump because it would be easy, sit well with his constituency, and would be good for his ego fulfillment. He also likely believes that it reflects the truth but I doubt that motivates him significantly.

Yes, it's very cross political, much like gender ideology. Quite a lot of people with differernt perspectives and coming from differernt places are concerned about it..

This is exactly the kind of issue where it's most possible to achieve concrete political gains. I'm not sure why the progressive left no longer understands this.

No, there is the implication that because she said something, by association everyone who doesn’t condemn her for this and everything else is “aligned” with her or Trump or TR or whatever the right wing bogeyman on the month is. It’s tedious.

Nonsense. When people are talking about something KJK said, they are talking about something KJK said. Your inference that it's all about you is on you.

Your ridiculous attempt to paint posters who disagree with her stance on the rapist Donald Trump as probable TRAs is transparent, boring and disrespectful of women concerned about women's rights.

IMO, KJK's endorsement of Trump is sexist and regressive.

No one but you has said that she is the worst person in the world.

Do you actually believe that every post about KJK is actually about you @NotBadConsidering?

Seriously?

What a weird inference you have made! No. Why would I think that? How strange.

My own inference is based on observations of the many threads on KJK. Based on other people’s responses and how they are responded to.

Nonsense. When people are talking about something KJK said, they are talking about something KJK said. Your inference that it's all about you is on you.

I haven’t said it was all about me. I have pointed out that a general theme on threads about her is to talk about how it “aligns” people with other people. There are pages and pages of threads like this. You must have missed them.

Your ridiculous attempt to paint posters who disagree with her stance on the rapist Donald Trump as probable TRAs is transparent, boringand disrespectful of women concerned about women's rights.

I haven’t attempted to paint posters who disagree with her about Trump as TRAs. That’s pretty hard to do given I disagree with her about Trump and I am not a TRA, and I know plenty of posters who aren’t TRAs have also expressed clearly that they disagree with her about Trump. I mean the posts are right there, for all to see.

What I am doing is suggesting that new poster ploppers posting a thread about her and not returning and certain posters endlessly flogging the “you’re all right wing by association” dead horse is a TRA tactic, to try and develop guilt by association and to seek to undermine any opposition to gender ideology.

IMO, KJK's endorsement of Trump is sexist and regressive.

Congratulations, I agree with you.

No one but you has said that she is the worst person in the world.

But I didn’t say that, did I? I didn’t even say that other people have said she’s the worst person in the world. I said that some people think she’s a “bad ‘un”, which is undeniable as many people (including posters here) openly despise her and call her all sorts of names, including a “transphobe”, which of course in TRA land qualifies you as one of the worst people in the world at least. I think it’s undeniable that people hate her, don’t you think?

Are these people all that a huge nation can drum up? Appalling.
All can say about the matter is Trump isn't as orange as he used to be.

this is the weird thing isn't it. she has garnered a bit of a cult-like following

@NotBadConsidering

People frequently say they don’t agree with her on this, that or the other but it’s never enough. In my opinion, what motivates threads like this is the desire to see complete capitulation about KJK, to “win” the argument that she’s a bad ‘un, and until such capitulation is seen from everyone, threads like this will keep popping up. What motivates this, in my opinion, is a trans activist method of trying to tar all opposition to their ideology as being wrought from the same position. Sling enough mud and hope that opposition to their sexist ideology will wither away. It’s so transparent and as I have said already, boring and trite. There’s no way to argue their ideology positively, so instead it’s best to play the man (metaphorically speaking) and not the ball. If KJK “falls” then they think they have a chance to convince people their ideology is good. It’s been going on for years. “Take out the big players.” Stock, Glinner, JKR, whoever.

Speaking for me only, that isn't the case. I don't need complete agreement from everyone that she's "bad" - I'm not a fascist. It's simply a warning signal. She isn't necessarily who she makes herself out to be, and I think that deserves discussion. As for "If KJK “falls” then they think they have a chance to convince people their ideology is good," I think you're overthinking it. Who are "they" here? The left? And if you're putting Glinner up as an example of a big player, then perhaps it's best we don't exactly agree.

Speaking for me only, that isn't the case

Ok, good for you if you say so.

It's simply a warning signal. She isn't necessarily who she makes herself out to be

Like this hasn’t been pointed out a million times?

and I think that deserves discussion

Does it though? For thread after endless thread? Started by an OP who hasn’t returned? Because she’s (shock!) tweeted something 😮? Why? What original thought does this bring? Nothing so far and we are now on page 11.

Who are "they" here? The left? And if you're putting Glinner up as an example of a big player, then perhaps it's best we don't exactly agree.

“They” are TRAs, not the left, and big players are those who have had a public platform and been vocal in using it. Don’t be disingenuous. Glinner has been vocal, has many followers, has been on Newsnight on the BBC about it so of course he was a big target by TRAs.

I think you're overthinking it

No I’m not. It’s a deliberate tactic. If I’m wrong, where’s the OP?

Glinner has been a liability to feminists for years now, he uses women as a defence for nasty, personal attacks on people and I'd be surprised if any woman here would be comfortable defending him.

In my opinion the first 10 pages are "filled with all the same stuff" because of the number of posters that will uncritically support KJK whatever and not engage with the substance of what she's doing at the moment.

Historically posters on here have claimed that those of us expressing concerns about KJKs liking for Trump were making it up because we are socfems/TRAs/ jealous of her hair and wanted to smear her.

Faced with absolute incontrovertible evidence that she is an outright MAGA, its still somehow our fault there are threads and this implication those of us who don't like it just aren't cool or clever enough to appreciate what she does do while ignoring her MAGAness.

There are more posters now saying they are shocked by what she's saying/doing and that shows the threads are interesting.

The "cult of personality" around her is interesting however. It is at odds with the rational analysis that FWR is famed for.

Should have read this before I spent time writing mine! Exactly

KJK “falls” then they think they have a chance to convince people their ideology is good. It’s been going on for years. “Take out the big players.” Stock, Glinner, JKR, whoever.

She’s just one person of billions on the planet who oppose a sexist, regressive, homophobic ideology and even if everyone here does capitulate to their will that she is the worst person in the world

Shroedinger. Simultaneously "a big player" and "just one person of billions".

And BTW using one's "big player" influence to shore up support for Trump is the opposite of "opposing a sexist, regressive, homophobic ideology"

For me the basic question is "is it true?"

I don't believe two tier policing is true. I think the police must have the flexibility to choose a strategy that is appropriate to the circumstances. So policing a planned, pro-Palestinian rally that's been organised in advance with them will require a different approach to posting a riot where people are trying to set fire to immigration hostels.

I think the police can be racist and sexist and can sometimes/often fuck up their approach but calling that "two tier policing" is reductive and implies there is deliberate intent from the police and the people in charge of them, so to me comes across as "anti elitist" which is a fascist tactic.

I'd rather have an imperfect police force policing by consent than a militarised police following the direction of a "strong leader" as per reform.

Please stop implying regular posters who disagree with KJK are TRAs. It's not true and it's offensive.