Testosterone gives transmen incontinence, bladder & bowel problems

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/26/trans-problems-urinary-bowel-incontinent-young-detransition/

The Telegraph reporting on worrying data showing that young women who've been persuaded that they've been "born in the wrong body" and are on cross sex hormones are experiencing major problems from their use with 95 per cent developing pelvic floor dysfunction.

"Around 87 per cent of the participants had urinary symptoms such as incontinence, frequent toilet visits and bed-wetting, while 74 per cent had bowel issues including constipation or being unable to hold stools or wind in. Some 53 per cent suffered from sexual dysfunction".

And our sainted NHS have been contributing to this without conducting any research.

Absolutely. I think there has been a lot of unethical and abusive behaviour from therapists over the years and especially with vulnerable children.

I’ll never forget the case of David Reimer. A circumcision went horribly wrong and his penis was burnt beyond repair. He was taken to John Money, a prominent gender ideologist who advised he be raised as a girl. He was then castrated and had a fake vulva installed.

To instill a female identity in him Money would make him and his twin brother rehearse sexual acts. David would be made to kneel on all fours whilst his brother was made to thrust against his buttocks, and to lie on his back with his legs open whilst his brother lay on top. During both these activities he would take photographs of the boys. He also made both children inspect one another’s genitals. Any distress or resistance was met with anger and abuse as described by David:

He told me to take my clothes off, and I just did not do it. I just stood there. And he screamed, 'Now!' Louder than that. I thought he was going to give me a whupping. So I took my clothes off and stood there shaking.

David always saw himself as a boy, but was still constantly pressured to undergo surgery to create an ‘vagina’ as well as being drugged with oestrogen. He became suicidal at the age of 13 and said that he would commit suicide if forced to go back. He later had to undergo mastectomy and phalloplasty, though we know how inadequate such surgeries can be.

Both children were extremely disturbed as a result of their abuse and in the end David’s brother died from an overdose of antidepressants. This was shortly followed by David dying from a self inflicted gunshot wound at the age of 38. All the terrible consequences were covered up and Money reported it as a successful experiment. He is one of the founding fathers of transgenderism. As such, although horrified to see the AMA OP’s reports, I’m not surprised to see that gender questioning children (not that David was one) are still being groomed and sexually abused by so called therapists.

I’ve been regularly amazed at how socially incompetent so called therapists can be. Surely the most basic requirement is empathy and interpersonal skills?

I do think there are exceptions though. I had a wonderful therapist assigned to me as a child after suffering abuse. She was worth her weight in gold. Obviously discussions had to be had that related to the abuse and how and when others should be allowed to see or touch my privates. I do think it is possible to have such conversations with children in a way that is age appropriate and does not inflict further trauma and abuse on them.

Never forget that John Money invented the terms 'gender role' and 'sexual orientation' (possibly also transsexual) and introduced the word 'paraphilia' for what would formerly have been known by a more judgemental term.

There's always a debate about whether art is 'contaminated' if the artist committed evil acts - thinking Eric Gill for example. It seems to me that Money did evil things and that his capacity to do them does raise doubts about his 'respectability' as an authority on human behavior. He is the founding father of everything that is now written about gender - he'd be very proud of how his ideas have been developed.

You’re right about not everything necessarily being wrong simply because of the unethical behaviour of the proponent. But I think gender ideology and the treatment of children who do not ‘fit’ their sex (whether through behaviour, or acquired / congenital genital abnormalities) is terribly tarnished by sexual abuse and grooming.

It's as if transgenderism gave these men the perfect excuse to legitimise the sexualisation of children. Putting ideas into very young children's heads. I don't doubt some parents went along in the mistaken belief of listening to their children but there are others that you can't help but question whether they did it for their own gratification. Either way children have been harmed and childhoods ruined that they will never get back. Even sadder is the outcomes when they reach adulthood and fully understand what was done to them.

Agreed, I have mixed feelings on the parents. Some have had the living daylights frightened out of them by being told their children will take their own life if they do not affirm them. Others have trusted that medical professionals will be responsible and provide proper care to their child. However, clearly there are some who have sinister motivations - attention seeking or Munchausen by proxy, or the desire for a child to remain in a prepubescent state for an extended period (which is not beyond imagination for the fathers convicted of sexual offences as reported above.)

Abuse alone is enough to shatter innocence and ruin a childhood. I can’t imagine having that compounded by drugs and surgeries that cause infertility, incontinence and physical pain alongside destroying sexual function and sensation. All justified to achieve an aim that will never actually be possible.

However, clearly there are some who have sinister motivations - attention seeking or Munchausen by proxy, or the desire for a child to remain in a prepubescent state for an extended period (which is not beyond imagination for the fathers convicted of sexual offences as reported above.)

It doesn't even have to be this extreme, I don't think. Just as young people have always had identity groups like being an alternative or a goth etc, parents sometimes form tribes or gain a sense of belonging, identity etc (to varying degrees) through their child or from other parents with that kind of child - whether it's kids who do a sport, dance, have a particular SEN or disability, do pageants, etc. Sometimes that's healthy and supportive, sometimes it's a bit more extreme and more about meeting a need in the parent. We had indigo children and so on. It doesn't have to be full munchausen's for some parents to get something from that "my child is special" phenomenon. And especially so in the age of social media when boasting about your child on FB etc is pretty normal in some circles.

I'm not defending it, it's just that full-blown munchausen's is quite rare but I think the perceived "coolness" of having a trans child is more common. It's happening with a lot of celebs too.

Sometimes that's healthy and supportive, sometimes it's a bit more extreme and more about meeting a need in the parent. We had indigo children and so on. It doesn't have to be full munchausen's for some parents to get something from that "my child is special" phenomenon.

Yes, @MrsWhattery I think what you say is more common than we like to admit. I see it in my extended family with this issue.

I completely agree with you there. I only mentioned those two possibilities because they are at the other extreme end of the spectrum and I do think there is evidence of them occurring in some cases.

I agree TicklishLemur and wasn’t meaning to disagree with you - more just pondering that this is so widespread as to not just be munchausen’s. The word “transhausen’s” has been coined but I don’t think it’s just severe mental illness. Because parents are being told being trans is normal, healthy and happy and that their child is right about whatever “gender identity” they declare, anyone who does want attention or coolness via their child will just get that as a bonus and for them it won’t be on a par with actively harming them. That’s one of the many awful things about it all.

But actively trying to push transing on children for attention does seem to be happening as well.

One of the things that I found/find difficult about my ex is that he will boast about the DC and try to bask in reflected glory if they do anything he considers cool. He’s a fully signed up he/him and I know if either DC made a peep about gender he’d be all over it, encouraging it and broadcasting it to the world. He means well though. It’s frightening how the ideology has the power to blind people/parents to such obviously disastrous harms.

And the doctors and the TV producers who thought his pain and abuse was ‘entertainment’. There desperately needs to be a tsunami of law suits.

Only I fear that many of the young people swept up in the trans craziness are too vulnerable, for a variety of reasons, to be rightly angered and take action against what’s been done to them.

Just watched this 45 minute video (when I was supposed to be doing something else). Utterly riveting and very informative. Elaine Millar speaks in such a measured neutral tone, and lays out the devastating bladder/gynae and pelvic floor failure type side effects of oestrogen depletion on females taking testosterone.

She’s very annoyed at the lack of information and lack of research on this topic available to anyone female considering testosterone. The detrans host was able to tell Elaine of another issue she suffered whilst on testosterone (tampons falling out) Elaine hadn’t heard of.

I hope lots of females considering transition watch this - if it makes even one stop and think it’s worth it.

It always bothers me a great deal to read comments suggesting that most gender non-conforming adolescents are homosexual.
Some of us just can't conform to stereotypes, some choose not to.

As a teenager, I looked very masculine and was sometimes mistaken for a boy, mostly by young children and people with poor eyesight. Teenage boys, however, were anxious to know if I was a lesbian. As I got older I made a point of signalling I was female using long hair and earrings, but I increasingly got asked if I was a lesbian. My very muscular body was the main thing they noticed, and it was annoying having to wear long sleeves to avoid misunderstandings. I can't help having muscled appearance - I was born like that - but for young women anxious about strength training in case it makes them look butch, that is actually a health issue.

SaltPorridge I know what you mean. I was a tomboy, have had short hair all my life, people have assumed I was a boy (when a child) and then a lesbian, all my life. I'm straight (it would be a lot easier if I was a lesbian tbh, this is just how I want to be and look, and I'm more attractive to lesbians than to men... it's amazing I managed to pull a man and have kids tbh).

These days I get asked if I'm non-binary too.

But it is true that gender non-confirming is correlated with being homosexual. You mentioned using certain hair, jewellery to "signal" being female and straight. And lots of gay people have their "signals" too, which tend to be gender non-conforming. That's part of it.

But I've known quite a few people who grew up to be gay and were clearly GNC from a very young age. It also definitely seemed to be a thing at the Tavistock.

I agree with you about sports and being muscular as well. No girl should have to feel put off that.

And yet women (who don't identify as men) have to be so bloody careful about what we put into our bodies when we're pregnant. Case in point, I need antihistamines, firstly because I was getting bitten by midges and coming out in huge lumps, secondly because I get horrendous hayfever and it's bad enough even with antihistamines. Couldn't get a straight answer from the pharmacists and HCPs I asked. Looked it up and the NHS website says loratadine is safe in pregnancy, which is what I was taking last year and had some left over, so I've been taking that.

I didn't know I was pregnant until I realised my period was nearly two months late. I spoke to a GP who seemed to think that because I'd been drinking before this point I was better off having an abortion. 😡 The way he spoke to me seemed to indicate he thought I'm some sort of party animal, because then he asked about drugs. Don't think he was expecting me to confess to having cold and flu drinks and cough syrup! (I'd been ill and had a day off sick, which was when I twigged that I might be pregnant.)

I think people are conflated things here - the majority (70-90%) of those referred to the Tavistock (who, as a result of their trans identification, are GNC) have been shown to be LGB.

However, of the general population, it does not follow that GNC people are LGB, although as a result of this conflation, many are now assumed to be so when before they were just acknowledged to be tomboys/effeminate boys. Add to this that, although there is probably quite a high level of GNC-ity amongst L or G people vis a vis the straight population, it is still NOT a key indicator being L/G.

Frankly, the GI movement has set the LGB movement back decades. Many of the blokes that I know to be gay, you’d never really know other than their eyes don’t track the women when they’re in the pub…

I agree with this, I'd imagine that the majority of parents who go along with this are simply enamoured of being in the Tribe of Righteous People With The Bundle Of Good Beliefs, and it's a bonus if their child is one of the special ones for Extra Righteousness.

I agree that not everything is wrong because their creator/proponent was unethical. But when it comes to scientific research any results will automatically be tainted by poor or unethical practice. Because in that case the product (scientific conclusion/results) is inextricably tied to the process (research). And Moneys thoughts/transgender theory are usually presented as science.

I wasn't sure which thread to put this on, plumped for this one

https://www.theguardian.com/science/article/2024/may/31/men-and-other-mammals-live-longer-if-they-are-castrated-says-researcher

Golly gosh, perhaps it's the testosterone? Should definitely give massive doses of it to girls and women.

Studies of castrati singers, human males castrated before puberty to preserve their high voices, have shown that they lived no longer than non-castrated male singers.

The point about these groups being that their lifestyles were similar if not identical.

How much of any lengthened lifespan is due to hormones and how much is due to differences in lifestyle?

But anyway, they're all studies of human males.

Even if testosterone is a factor in males living shorter lives than females, it is perfectly possible that increasing testosterone in females might shorten their lives even more than the hormone shortens male lives, because female physiology is different.

This has been such a knowledgable and measured thread. So incredibly depressing at what’s been done to our young people. Abuse touted as rainbow sprinkles right before all our eyes and encouraged by health and education professionals. The exact two groups of people you expect to protect vulnerable young people. Makes me equally angry and so worried for my DC navigating this mess.

The exact two groups of people you expect to protect vulnerable young people.

This is what upsets and angers me too. My family consists mostly of people working in health and education and we are all horrified. A close relative was a psychiatrist working in CAHMS who retired earlier than he might because he felt the care he could give was so compromised. I retired from secondary education before it all kicked off, though I saw it creep into FE. (Luckily I was in a sector where it didn’t get much traction.) I worry about my grandchildren and the lies and nonsense they’ve been exposed to in school.

Absolutely agree as a retired TA. I remember a single incident of a pupil becoming trans-identified in a 30 year career. Now there appear to be entire friendship groups. How can safeguarding and vulnerability concerns not be at the forefront of their mind? The thought of transing a child without ever informing their parents is so far beyond what is acceptable.

I know there are a few extreme scenarios where you might not inform a parent of something concerning that a child has said/done. In my experience it was only ever a tiny handful of situations, all of which involved parents we strongly suspected to be abusers. But it seems this was done routinely for trans-identifying children. My grandson is only 2 and I am so grateful that the Cass report has come out before he begins school.

Agreed. The tragedy at the centre of what's happening to young people - young women in particular - is heartbreaking. And to know that the NHS, medical associations and countless national institutions are still cheering on this ideology ignoring the reality of what's happening to so many young people is terrifying.