Testosterone gives transmen incontinence, bladder & bowel problems

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/26/trans-problems-urinary-bowel-incontinent-young-detransition/

The Telegraph reporting on worrying data showing that young women who've been persuaded that they've been "born in the wrong body" and are on cross sex hormones are experiencing major problems from their use with 95 per cent developing pelvic floor dysfunction.

"Around 87 per cent of the participants had urinary symptoms such as incontinence, frequent toilet visits and bed-wetting, while 74 per cent had bowel issues including constipation or being unable to hold stools or wind in. Some 53 per cent suffered from sexual dysfunction".

And our sainted NHS have been contributing to this without conducting any research.

Hi yes you can find transgender trend’s summary of some of the research here. It does link to the actual papers themselves if you want to read them instead.

For some reason YouTube thought I wanted to watch this. I didn't. I tried, but I bailed when they cited WPATH approvingly. Not having watched the whole thing, I can't say for certain that they didn't cover Cass or the study in the OP. If anyone wants to have a look you're a stronger person than i

I had a quick scroll through the comments, didn't see any dissention. I'm assuming modded or down voted to oblivion.

Thanks. I'll have a look at that later.

The family of that child are horrendous, but on what planet is it acceptable for a mainstream production company, to pay for this abuse to be filmed and televised. Also what sort of person watches this abuse, to the extent that it continues to be made?

The fact that most pre-pubertal children with gender dysphoria end up being lesbian and gay adults is based on good quality research.

Your link doesn't show this, certainly not for girls. Only those whose gender dysphoria persists post puberty are likely to grow up to be lesbians.

for natal girls with gender dysphoria virtually all those whose dysphoria persisted into adolescence also exhibited a lesbian identity. In contrast, girls whose gender dysphoria resolved by adolescence were straight.

It is more true of boys, since a much larger percentage of those whose gender dysphoria doesn't persist, grow up to be gay.

for natal boys with gender dysphoria virtually all those whose dysphoria persisted into adolescence also exhibited a gay identity. In contrast to the girls, the boys whose gender dysphoria resolved by adolescence exhibited a range of straight, bisexual and gay identities. The frequency of same-sex attraction in this group of boys is much higher than we see in boys who have never had gender dysphoria (1-2% in general population) which suggests that even when gender dysphoria resolves before adolescence it is still predictive of a gay identity later.

Another study also found similar results.

Using the largest sample to date, with a follow-up mean age of 20.58 years, the study found only a 12.2% persistence rate. 87.8 % desisted and 63.6% grew up to be gay.

If 63.6% are gay, that means 36.4% are not. So although it's quite a large percentage who grow up to be gay, it would be wrong say that all, or nearly all, little boys with gender dysphoria will be gay, because more than a third of them will not, which is a significant proportion. You could say it's 'most' of them, since it's more than half, but I think it would be wrong to say that a young boy with gender dysphoria will 'probably' be gay, because there's a one in three chance that he will not.

Thank you so much SaltPorridge. It does feel like a bereavement in some ways though without the helpful rituals and understanding friends.

In fact some friends I've lost contact with as obviously I'm the bigot /transphobe and they can't see any of the nuance.

I have had friends transition years ago and I didn't/ don't have any problem as treating them as their acquired sex.

The difference when your own child chooses to transition is that you know if they showed any sign of being different growing up, you know how they presented in the years before they left home. You know what happened and how they followed instructions to get hormones at a private clinic and how all your reservations were swept aside whilst they surrounded themselves with an echo chamber.

You know that you said too much because you love them so much and can't bear to watch them take irreversible steps they may regret later.

You know they are still the same person and your love is not conditional on what they do or don't do, which is why it hurts so much to be excluded from their life.

Oh I see, I must be honest I only did O levels so I’m not brilliant with statistics. I thought it meant that most were gay/lesbian, I wouldn’t ever knowingly spread mistruths. As far as I can see though it’s still fair to say it is disproportionately affecting children and young people who would become gay/lesbian if not interfered with?

I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through 💐

I would agree with others that it is worth continuing to send cards and show that you love her. On a pragmatic level, if you were able to re-establish contact would it be worth considering avoiding the issue? Although I’m reluctant to advise someone not to express their views, if it meant you were able to maintain a relationship then perhaps it would be worth it?

That is the approach that my wife and I take with our son. Even with medication he has some delusions and unusual thinking. However, if we notice them we just make a mental note and let his support staff know because trying to deny them or argue with him gets us nowhere and damages the relationship. I normally just change the subject to something we can have a nice discussion about like hobbies or recent activities he has done.

I appreciate my son’s case is very different though so please do say if my advice is unwelcome or hurtful. I really do hope it won’t be.

@TicklishLemur I would love to be able to reestablish contact with some ground rules. I don't think it will happen any time soon, but I will wait for ever/as long as it takes. I'm glad you have a relationship with your son, I hope he appreciates you being there for him.
I think life used to be simpler before the internet and I'm sure I'm not alone in craving family contact.

Yes, it definitely is disproportionately affecting children who would grow up to be gay or lesbian. I was just disputing what some posters were saying on this thread that Jazz Jennings would definitely have grown up to be gay. A boy with gender dysphoria is more likely than not to grow up to be gay (two thirds of such boys are, according to the studies mentioned by Transgender Trend), but this isn't a certainty.

If the child is just gender non-conforming, the proportion is much lower - only 10-12%:

In the group of children who exhibited GNC behaviours 10-12% grew up to be a gay men or lesbian women. This compares to a baseline of only 1.2-1.7% of children who did not exhibit GNC behaviours growing up to be gay.

We don't know if JJ genuinely had gender dysphoria, or just liked dressing up in tutus. If the latter, there's a 90% probability that he wouldn't have grown up to be gay. If he did have gender dysphoria there's still a 1 in 3 chance that he wouldn't have been gay.

I have no idea what the figures are for the converse - what proportion of gay men and lesbians were gender non-conforming or had gender dysphoria as children. There may be a much stronger correlation.

TLC. They've discovered that there's a lot of money to be made form encouraging human beings' baser instincts to gawp at the afflicted. See also:

• Here Comes Honey Boo Boo - in which viewers were encouraged to mock a poor, under-educated, unhealthy white rural American family whose youngest child did beauty pageants, and whose matriarch recently died young of heart failure
• My 600lb Life - in which viewers were encouraged to mock morbidly obese, severely mentally ill, poverty stricken and often drug addicted people as they tried and often failed to lose weight on a starvation diet

No, you're quite right, it was a lazy way of writing it. And I have personal experience of the opposite, so you'd think I'd know.

Is there any correlation, at all? Between effeminate male behaviour in childhood and adult sexual orientation?

The school involvement is very new. Trans was not something that was mentioned at all when I was in primary (I’m 24) or secondary for that matter, beyond a sign in a corridor with the definitions of all the new niche sexualities (demisexual et al)

It is much more of a thing now, or at least was a couple of years back, thanks primarily to Stonewall.

The thing is, I believe we all understand here that for research to be something we can generalize about, we need to be talking about the same group of people.

There are clearly a number of groups who get drawn under the trans umbrella and I don't think it's in any way clear they are related.

Among youth, it seems like many are likely trying to understand their own sexuality. There is a reason we recognize "types" like the effeminate gay man or butch lesbian - it's because our emerging sexuality interacts with cultural norms around who we want to be sexually attractive to, at a very deep level. So most pre teens and teens are trying to create a sense of identity, but those who are not heterosexual have a slightly different path to follow.

That being said, we also know that youth who have BPD, or have been sexually assaulted, or are autistic also seems to be more likely than average to think they are gender confuse.

Straight males, and small children, seem to be different groups again.

I don't think we can apply the generalizations about sexuality across these populations.

What hasn't struck me until I read that recent AMA was that both that poster and here, Jazz, describe gender dysphoria as centring on revulsion, distress, or horror at their genitalia. At a very young age.

That is seriously concerning and should, surely, lead any right thinking person to ask why that might be?

Yes, why on earth would any child have “revulsion, distress and horror” to a part of the body that they have to be taught is private and not to be exposed in the same way as any other non-pants part. 🤔

Agreed. The AMA poster said she hadn’t suffered any sexual abuse in childhood. However, as someone who did suffer CSA a lot of her feelings and mental health problems were very familiar to me.

A child being horrified by their genitalia at the age of 2 or 3 is very worrying. It might be projection from my own experiences but I can’t help but wonder whether something has been suppressed or the conscious memory has been lost, considering the very young age at distress.

To be honest even things like watchful waiting seems over the top. One of mine wanted to be a Disney princess when he was 3 or 4, we just let him get on with it. He grew out of it as I'm sure most kids would if no one made a fuss or reacted.

She explained it as arising during undress such as being bathed or changing for swimming. I have no doubt that the distress is absolutely genuine and it helps to explain why she is so determined to have phalloplasty despite the horrendous effect of it. But I can’t help but worry about the underlying cause in such a young child (pre-nursery school). Especially as she has never had any proper romantic relationship (despite now being in her 30s) because the thought of being touched intimately is unbearable.

Some other posters did try and elicit whether there was any such history but were shut down by other users. It does appear they must have been insensitive in how they asked as HQ had deleted the comments before I came across the thread, but I think the concern behind it is absolutely valid.

I can see the value in it for children who are actually distressed. By all means we shouldn’t be pathologising normal behaviour like dressing up, but if they have distress or mental ill health I think that is a different scenario. Psychiatric input and support to identify the underlying cause, manage the issue, and teach them to be comfortable in their body could all be beneficial in my opinion. I think that is particularly important considering the safeguarding issues that could be at play.

You would think so wouldn't you! But no! lets just chop it all off then! Instead.

I want to shout "have you lost your Fucking minds?? " at them!

With JJ in one of the clips of a tv show, the mother said at 2 years old he asked if the fairy was going to give him a vagina or something along those lines. I'm sorry but at 2 years old? I just don't get it. Surely at 2 years old, toddlers have no real awareness of their bodies in this way.

Indeed. It is almost textbook for sexually abused children to blame themselves. How it can’t be at the front of a doctor or therapist’s mind I have no idea. Maybe it’s more palatable to them to accept the idea of trans children than raped toddlers. Maybe it’s easier to pump them full of drugs and amputate their genitals than to provide the ongoing and challenging psychological interventions necessary. I can only hope I’m being overly cynical but I know what my gut says.

I honestly don’t believe a word that comes out of that woman’s mouth. The AMA was more informative purely as it came from the individual herself, and as an adult. She described a feeling of ‘horror’ from being a toddler. However, the desire to actually possess male genitals (vs unhappiness with her own) seems to have arisen later in childhood. The transition between those two positions wasn’t made overly clear. In my opinion, it’s seems likely that once she realised that genitals different than her own existed, to have them instead must have seemed the perfect solution.