Testosterone gives transmen incontinence, bladder & bowel problems

[MrsOvertonsWindow]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/05/26/trans-problems-urinary-bowel-incontinent-young-detransition/

The Telegraph reporting on worrying data showing that young women who've been persuaded that they've been "born in the wrong body" and are on cross sex hormones are experiencing major problems from their use with 95 per cent developing pelvic floor dysfunction.

"Around 87 per cent of the participants had urinary symptoms such as incontinence, frequent toilet visits and bed-wetting, while 74 per cent had bowel issues including constipation or being unable to hold stools or wind in. Some 53 per cent suffered from sexual dysfunction".

And our sainted NHS have been contributing to this without conducting any research.

There's an article in Time magazine, an interview with Jazz. He says about undoing his onesie to be like a dress, the blue fairy. Thing is, assuming Jazz believes Jazz is being truthful, Jazz will struggle to differentiate between real memories, stories told to Jazz from a young age that Jazz thinks are memories, stuff that actually happened later (following influence from others) that have been retconned into the Jazz legend.

Children can be very sensitive to teasing. My Dad teased me about having a boyfriend when I was very young (literally just said 'ooh, IcakethereforeIam has got a boyfriend' in that stupid sing song voice). It totally messed with my head. I felt humiliated although, in the scheme of things, it was nothing. But not to little me. And it marked me for a long time. I suspect it was forgotten by everyone else before the day was over.

The inciting incident for Jackie Green, losing toys (though I wouldn't be surprised if there was more), is not a big deal but huge for a child. If there's something similar in Jazz's past, it may have gone unremarked at the time and now been forgotten. If Jazz remembers it could now seem so small and petty that Jazz would be too embarrassed to admit it.

In many families nowadays a little boy dressing up in a princess costume would be just fine. Decades ago it would have been a different story. I think there's always been a bit more tolerance for tomboys, but not in all families and communities. I find it all too easy to believe that intolerant parents, extended family, church members and so on can make a tiny child's life a misery constantly saying 'Not that, that's for girls! Put that down at once - what are you, a sissy?' One advantage of getting parents and children in a clinic with experienced, sensible HCPs and therapists is that they can work on the parents as well as the child - attempt to get them to see that gender nonconforming behaviour is no big deal, and that they're making their child ill by their responses to it. In that context watchful waiting was a very sensible approach.

Couldn’t agree more. Severe distress regarding their genitals is very unlikely to appear in children without some kind of adverse experience in my opinion. We know that rates of abuse, being looked after etc. were disproportionately high in children attending the Tavistock. What the Tavistock should have done is to look at these children and their family holistically and with safeguarding at the forefront of their mind.

Even before the use of puberty blockers the place was abysmal. The AMA OP reports being asked by a therapist to justify why she didn’t want to have vaginal sex followed by a recommendation she tried it. At the time she was underage, and she is same sex attracted.

They also made her stand in front of the mirror whilst female characteristics of her body (which I can only assume meant her breasts and privates) were commented on ‘positively’. I have no idea what therapeutic benefit they believed that the objectification and sexualisation of a child would achieve.

The tragic thing is that she readily admits she wishes she had received effective support to accept her body. Unsurprisingly she found the ‘therapy’ humiliating and traumatic and so concluded that there was nothing that would help other than drugs and surgery. I wonder what the outcome would have been if someone like Dr Cass had been the one to care for her.

I wonder the same of Jazz. Had he been taken to a therapist who recognised the abuse occurring and taught him that his gender non conformity was nothing to be ashamed or upset about, the outcome could have been very different. Whilst nothing can undo what was done to these young people, I really hope that the changes being made will protect the next generation.

This is merely musing, but if a hypothetical, very closeted pedophilic, possibly gay, man had a little boy, who gave off "effeminate " vibes, I wonder how that man would react. I especially wonder how that man would react towards a child towards whom he was attracted.

Well gender non conforming children and those who will grow up gay and lesbian suffer significantly higher rates of sexual abuse.

It's not a totally hypothetical scenario. A GIDS clinician said this about one of the children she treated:

“All the pushing was coming from the father to put the kid on puberty blockers. Thinking back on it now, I fear that the father was a paedophile and the child was being abused.”

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-feels-like-conversion-therapy-for-gay-children-say-clinicians-pvsckdvq2

Archived here: https://archive.is/OzlEP

Dear lord! How the hell could these clinicians go to work every day and contribute to the mutilation of children, if they even suspected that these children were being abused?

Hope the family were reported to social services in that case. That's a criminal offence nowadays to not report child Safeguarding concerns.

Wasn't there something about the GID kids being more likely to have a parent (likely to be the male parent) who was sex offender?

Is that true?

I don't doubt you, but for many years the truism I have heard is that there is no correlation between sexual abuse and homosexuality.

I suppose these days I would not be surprised to find that was a lie, but it's not really something I had thought to doubt.

Yes there was something along those lines discussed in Hannah Barnes’ book Time to Think.

I thought this, especially as she said she refused to engage with counselling/psychotherapy in any meaningful way. I felt she couldn't face something that had happened to her.

Yes higher rates in LGB children and extremely high in transgender-identified (up to 50%) found in this study

Almost 4x higher risk in LGB people according to this one.

This study shows that highly gender non-conforming children have an increased risk of all kinds of abuse including sexual.

Yes, I found an old Telegraph article about the book and the Tavistock scandal with this quote

Less than two per cent of children in the UK are thought to have an autism spectrum disorder, but according to Gids’s own data, around 35 per cent of its referrals “present with moderate to severe autistic traits”.
In 2000, the only clinical audit of patients ever carried out by Gids found that more than 25 per cent of referrals had spent time in care, compared with 0.67 per cent of the general population. Children referred to Gids were ten times more likely than the national average to have a registered sex offender as a parent, while 42 per cent had lost a parent through death or separation, and 70 per cent had more than five “associated features” such as anxiety, depression, abuse, self-harm, bullying, eating disorders or suicide attempts.

I highlighted the relevant bit but thought the whole section warranted repeating.

Heart breaking isn’t it? I can’t say I blame her for not being able to engage with the ‘counselling’ at the Tavistock considering how inappropriate it was and involved recommending underage PIV sex and adults making her look in the mirror whilst they commented on her sexual characteristics I.e. breasts and genitals presumably!?

But I was very concerned to read about how she found herself unable to even speak to a counsellor after a very violent rape at the age of 19. She said she preferred to stay busy with work and ‘move on’. Yet she is still so affected by it that she can’t even speak on the matter now and has to write it down on paper when necessary to inform people such as healthcare providers.

I think she probably thinks it will go away after she has had phalloplasty and she will be able to form romantic and sexual relationships without issue. I really fear for her mental health when that inevitably doesn’t work out.

Just to make clear I haven’t made any of my comments to insult Jazz or the AMA poster on a personal level. The mumsnet poster came across as a kind soul who has been through an awful lot. I don’t agree with her views on transition etc. obviously, but the only thing I feel for her is concern. The same is true of Jazz, he has clearly been brainwashed very powerfully but I think the day will come where he finally realised how badly he had been abused and the whole facade will crumble.

the mother said at 2 years old he asked if the fairy was going to give him a vagina or something along those lines.

I agree we don’t know if this is actually true. But if it was, I can see how a very young child could be asking a question like that innocently (if they’ve learned a word for it).

if/when small children realise that the opposite sex has different genitals from them, they may say why don’t I have that, or will I get that. Perfectly reasonable question to which the sensible answer would be to explain boys and girls have different parts which can be used for making babies when they grow up, and you’re not going to grow the other kind of part but you’re fine and perfect as you are.

Or maybe a gender nonconforming child, such as a boy who like toys and clothes that he’s told are “for girls”, might think maybe that means he is a girl and wonders if he will get girl genitals too. It’s a reasonable confusion at that age and again the answer should be no that won’t happen, you’re a boy and that’s great. And ideally of course also let him play and dress up how he likes without making a big deal out if it.

Children referred to Gids were ten times more likely than the national average to have a registered sex offender as a parent

A stark, and staggering statistic. Given that most SOs aren't even ever discovered/charged, too.

It makes me wonder whether being referred to Gids isn't a flag for a safeguarding issue in itself.

Astonishing and awful report.

Things can it seems easily go very awry in 'therapy'.

I have pretty much lost all respect for "therapy". As far as I am concerned it seems as likely to cause problems as solve them. The fact that the standard is to basically cut parents out of therapy for kids to me is deeply wrong and unsafe.

I know a therapist who was working in children's gender care, she was really well respected as a child therapist. We were in a book group together. She was a kind person. But I can't think of anyone I've met as unable to understand other people, her comments about what went on in the novels were at times bizarre, and she couldn't deal with other people who had different political opinions. She was also extremely fearful of having the wrong opinions herself. In short, a mess.

I haven't overall been very impressed with many other therapists I've met. I just have little confidence they are likely to be helpful rather than harmful.

I had a friend in university who was non-white. He and his younger brother (who was the darker skinned of the two) had been adopted as toddlers by a white family. One day his brother at dinner asked when they would become white like the parents and older siblings. He had concluded that people were born dark and over time lost their pigmentation.

I remember thinking as a child that when women got old, their hair turned short and curly. Just like it turned grey, or men became bald.

Kids make a lot of leaps because they don't know anything.

Kids make a lot of leaps because they don't know anything.

I remember a friend of my parents scolding her little boy, aged about 3, for willy-twanging and saying 'Stop that or you'll pull it right off' - ah, old-style parenting - and he gazed at her and said solemnly, 'Is that what happened to (his friend) Alison's?'

My older sister told our Dad that the flood lights round castles were there to blind the castle's attackers! I was pea green with envy because I hadn't thought of it first (it was kind of genius imo for a young kid to think of). My then 2 yo scornfully telling us off for thinking sheep ate grass, they eat clouds as any fule knos, I mean just look at them!

If you tell a child they can change sex they may believe you because they are children! I think Glinner (and probably others) have said something like that. MN will be full of threads of the funny, scary, batshit and wonderful nonsense that children say. Just in this one instance when it intersects with an adult movement, fueled by adult desires and trauma, and sense goes out the window.

mrshoho · Yesterday 19:09

With JJ in one of the clips of a tv show, the mother said at 2 years old he asked if the fairy was going to give him a vagina or something along those lines. I'm sorry but at 2 years old?

Yes, I'm also extremely sceptical that he said something like that at such a young age. I've never watched any of it, I'm not keen on car crash TV. From what people have posted, it's a crime, an absolute tragedy what they did to him.

I just hope that one day, it's recognised and they get what they deserve.