They / them at work

[pootlefump]

I've just written a long post and it's disappeared so in brief - how do you deal with staff who are they/them at work? I will really struggle to call a very obvious biological male 'they'. I also can't loose my job and do want to be respectful but also can't change my view on this nonsense !

Thanks. I don't expect the person it was explicitly intended for will take any notice, of course.

Huh, @Belichtofalicht? You still think people posting here deny trans women exist? .... What was it? -- "Posters here deny completely that men can be women in any way at all….ergo, trans women do not exist". Hmm? Or have you changed your mind about that "ergo" after due thought?

As well as the egregious misunderstandings, the refusal even to consider opposing views remains as ever, remarkable.

@Belichtofalicht I see the personal attacks just keep on coming, you can't argue, explain or defend your position so resort to insults and slurs, do you think that is doing your position any good? Showing it in a positive light?

So far what you have done is show a live action rendition of just how nasty the purported Be kinders are. An excellent education for those who lurk and just read, well done.

None of the posters on here are responsible for your actions and reactions only you are.

Man who pretends to be woman

Woman who pretends to be man

Man or woman who pretends to be neither man or woman and instead both.

Man or woman who pretends to be the opposite of biological sex on alternative days.

Man or woman who pretends to be cat.

Etc etc

Course it wasn’t for me. Exclusion is your thing, isn’t it?

I for one would like to thank @Belichtofalicht for their service. What a recruiter for the GC cause. Top work

Course it wasn’t for me. Exclusion is your thing, isn’t it?

Comprehension certainly isn't yours. But yes, males should be excluded from women's spaces and sports. Definitely.

Well, that remained true to type.

Lots of “evidence” (from TRA academics/the Guardian) by “respectable” sources (from Universities, no less). As the “research” is from such exemplary sources, one only needs to read the summary (fuck the methodology, validity of conclusions, or blatant bias) of papers and quote the hallowed Wikipedia.

When challenged regarding the lack of credibility of the studies or asked to provide their obviously unique definition of the words used, a typical reversion to “find it yourself, I don’t have time to spoon feed you, educate yourself”.

That was classic TRA bullshit, followed by the usual flounce containing “be kiiiiind, you are a hate group, prejudice bigots”.

I am always amazed at how compulsively TRA/allies follow the playbook.

And when all else fails - there are the personal attacks.

It is pathetic.

Course it wasn’t for me. Exclusion is your thing, isn’t it?

I'm sorry you didn't get the hypothetical virtual chocolate bar. It's oppressive.

Use their name while you learn how to grow up and use pronouns.

It's frustrating to be called a hate group by someone who won't explain what it is women have in common with TW that justifies reducing women's dignity and safety. I think perhaps the concept of hate group has been redefined though along with the words woman, exist and similar.

The issue is that the OP already knows how to use pronouns. It's the work colleague who is expecting other people to make unusual changes on the basis of their personal belief system.

Bollocks do they.

“nonsense” is what they called it. Clearly the issue is I didn’t put preferred pronouns.

It is nonsense,

Someone else's personal belief system may well be regarded as nonsense by another person. So what? The issue arises when one person is trying to make other people conform to that personal belief system. As in the case of "demanded" pronouns.

Don't think it's the OP who needs to "grow up".

Sorry for referring to my personal situation yet again. Would you give me the same advice? Am I to refer to my son as “she”? Are you demanding that I pretend that my son is my daughter? Do I have to avoid “deadnaming” him?

Do you have any idea how offensive it is to expect me to describe his birth in these terms: when my daughter was born, she was assigned male, in accordance with all the evidence. As she grew up, she fooled everyone, including herself, into believing that she was a boy called James, when really she was a girl called Rose all along.

Bonkers ideology, and my moral compass is calibrated with physical reality, not some invented fantasy based entirely on feelings (but only the feelings of an astonishingly powerful minority).

*Names have been changed.

Sorry, but if your child has a preference of a different pronoun, then yes I would expect you to get on board and respect that for their sake. If you can’t do that, that’s up to you and your relationship with them. If they’ve switched back again, that’s up to them. It’s who they are, not who you want them to be.

But the OP is on about an employee, yes you absolutely do have to get on board. Both my husband and I work with multiple people who are they/them or using opposite pronouns to what would be assumed. We’ve been guilty of making the mistake and getting it wrong and we’ve both felt terrible. It’s really difficult especially if you have know that person as a previous identity. But you move with the times.

Very enlightening.

Sorry, but if your child has a preference of a different pronoun, then yes I would expect you to get on board and respect that for their sake. If you can’t do that, that’s up to you and your relationship with them. If they’ve switched back again, that’s up to them. It’s who they are, not who you want them to be.

So your son is male, and indeed is a child, and knows better than you do about his sex?
And, aged 14, he KNOWS he never wants children, and wants breasts, and doesn't want to grow a beard, and tells you he NEEDS to be put on puberty blockers, and knows better than you and knows they aren't harmful (despite all the evidence showing they are) and that they are the only way he isn't going to commit suicide (despite no evidence there's an increased suicide rate in children who identify as trans).

What about if your son decided he's a dinosaur when he was 4, did he know better then?
What if next year he decides he's, erm, I dunno, a wolf, or a baby, does he know better then?
And when your son also decides that he can definitely make a living by sitting in his bedroom gaming, does he know better then?
Or is it just this one area where adults don't know better?

A relationship is 50/50. Respect is reciprocal. It's not about parents 100% enabling and giving, and the child doing all the demanding and taking. Not a healthy relationship model in any way at all.

Both my husband and I work with multiple people who are they/them or using opposite pronouns to what would be assumed. We’ve been guilty of making the mistake and getting it wrong and we’ve both felt terrible.

It's a power trip for many people.

And a codependence issue for many others.

YY @Froodwithatowel

"But you move with the times".

No, that's not a default positive position to hold. Sometimes "the times" feature regressive and damaging ideologies. I prefer to stop and think, and decide for myself.