The pope says 'gender theory' causes divisions

[ArabellaScott]

'Peace requires respect for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Attempts to introduce new rights, which are not always acceptable, lead to instances of ideological colonization that create divisions rather than fostering peace, as in the case of gender theory.'

https://twitter.com/Pontifex/status/1746147585331703936

Prawn, try to answer this question:

'why sex, specifically?'

Why should we legislate for THIS internal perception alone, such that a failed/missing/incorrect perception of sex (whatever you're transphobically claiming trans people have/lack) takes priority over reality?

Knowing something is an internal perception.

Something which is rooted in my understanding of what sex is. It's not a magical inner force, it's my rational belief based on what I know about the world.

I totally believe that they have that feeling. I just don't see why that should be relevant to me or anyone else.

Dysphoria is a recognised condition, it underpins the GRC

Dysmorphia is too, but it’s treated not legislated for

Generally people don’t use mad or liar for dysmorphia but nor does society rearrange and create a legal falsehood to the detriment of a sex class due to it

Not personally. But I have listened to the countless people who have described that they do feel that way and rather than arrogantly dismissing them and assuming that they must all be liars or mad, I accept that they are describing a genuine feeling, even if it is not one I've felt myself.

Good for you. I don't believe it, because I've made a judgement about what's likely to be true and am not convinced that even a genuine feeling of being "in the real body" is anything more than psychological in nature, and I believe this belief is harmful to women and girls, so I am exercising my freedom of belief and expression to say no, not for me, and what you want doesn't work for me. And you can disregard that, or shout at me about it, but it doesn't change anything.

*in the wrong body

Or so you perceive it. But all you're doing here is insisting your internal reality is more real than other people's.

But Eresh's rational belief is testable. It's not about real, it's about true or false.

Or so you perceive it. But all you're doing here is insisting your internal reality is more real than other people's.

Obviously true, if those people's "internal reality" is getting their own sex wrong.

I repeat, why play these games with sex specifically, and not any other "internal reality"s?

I don't really understand what you're asking to be honest. What other identities are you suggesting we do/should base legislation on? Generally we don't legislate people's identities, sex is an outlier in that respect which is why it receives such scrutiny.

Or so you perceive it. But all you're doing here is insisting your internal reality is more real than other people's.

We all do this at some time or another. We don't just blindly accept someone's subjective version of how they see something.

I see more likely explanations for why male people claim to have a "female gender identity". And how exactly would they know? They have no first hand experience of what a female person feels, if any different, because they are male. Neither can they say their male experience isn't a male experience. At least without reference to incredibly sexist stereotypes, but you've said that they don't, so not sure what their benchmark is?

Eresh's internal belief isn't testable any more than anyone else's is. I can't see their belief. I can't prove it exists.

My belief that I am a woman is objectively testable in a way that a man's belief he is a woman is not.

Have you never experienced an internal perception? No thoughts, no feelings, no knowledge?

Not concerning something that that is a concrete immutable factual reality such as sex that to any logical human being is completely unchallengable and not subject to feelings. It's simply a fact of life. I've never been able to fool myself about something that is totally objective - that tends to end in tears. This is coming from a female that wanted to be a boy as a kid because apart from the fact that they had more fun and freedom (or they did when I was young), I had much more in common with males and felt more at home with them. I still do actually. But I never, for one single moment, closed my eyes to the reality of life - I was born female and I will die female and all the internal perception about gender identity (whatever that is - you still haven't given a proper explanation) in the world cannot change that.

Sorry, you really do seem to be trying to nail jelly to the wall.

Let me rephrase- Eresh's assertion about her belief is testable and falsifiable.

Or rather, whether my belief is based on reality is testable. I also don't accept that my "belief" that I am a woman is based on anything more than knowing what sex I am.

Yes but a lot of GC people aren’t conservative. Funny that.

It’s pretty crazy that you can be a card-carrying Labour voter all your life but the moment you acknowledge the immutability of sex, that all counts for nothing and you’re labelled a right-wing Tory bigot by certain underthinkers and ideologues.

Transubstantiation, innit.

But there is no single experience of "what a female feels". There's no universal internal or external experience that is experienced by all women or only women. So which particular female would they have to feel like in order to feel like a woman in a way that would be authentic to you? That isn't something that's quantifiable.

Many conservatives are not gender critical in its feminist meaning. They are often in favour of sex roles to a greater or lesser extent.

Her sex is testable though

Can you say why sex should be falsifiable but not age?

Someone might feel 25 at 46, why doesn’t the law allow for this?

GC is conservative.
Safeguarding is conservative.
Women's rights are conservative.
Equality for women is conservative.
Equality of human rights is conservative.

If all this is true then the left's remaining claimed territory is getting very worrying.

But there is no single experience of "what a female feels"

Then how can a man know he is "female" inside, when he is male? You're making my point for me, but you've got such a massive blind spot for this bizarre worldview that you can't see it.

If all this is true then the left's remaining claimed territory is getting very worrying.

Even respect for exclusively same sex attracted people is apparently conservative, contrary to popular opinion!

"Trans persons" are absolutely obsessed with categories and labels.