The pope says 'gender theory' causes divisions

[ArabellaScott]

'Peace requires respect for the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Attempts to introduce new rights, which are not always acceptable, lead to instances of ideological colonization that create divisions rather than fostering peace, as in the case of gender theory.'

https://twitter.com/Pontifex/status/1746147585331703936

Oh yes they are!

Nicolaus Copernicus, Gregor Mendel, Georges Lemaître, Albertus Magnus, Roger Bacon, Pierre Gassendi, Roger Joseph Boscovich, Marin Mersenne, Bernard Bolzano, Francesco Maria Grimaldi, Nicole Oresme, Jean Buridan, Robert Grosseteste, Christopher Clavius, Nicolas Steno, Athanasius Kircher, Giovanni Battista Riccioli, William of Ockham.

To mention just a few.

ah, but maybe they didn't have an internal perception of being Catholic

I'll bet you're glad you popped in now.

And the pope organises the worlds biggest conference on stem cell research every two years.

@PrawnLiberationFront

Just tip-toeing back to the OP, could you give us an example of the Pope's conservatism? I mean, I know that the Catholic church is a fairly conservative organisation (like most faith organisations) but where has Francis demonstrated his conservatism?

Oh, and another thing: do you understand the meaning of "perception"? I only ask because your use is completely at odds with my understanding.

yeah, I looked this up
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perception
there's a lot there about using various senses to gain information about the world but I don't think that's what Prawn was meaning somehow

Has there been an explanation of why a man who perceives himself to be a woman is a woman, but a man who perceives himself to be a prawn is delusional yet?

I apologize for not wading through the entire discussion. It’s late and I’m tired.

I quite like Pope Francis though and I think he’s been quite clear for a while now that God doesn’t make mistakes when it comes to people’s sex.

I came on this thread to say this, but it's already been said.

I thought it was interesting that the Pope came at it from the angle of whether it was a good thing for society, for peace. He doesn't even get into the thickets of arguing the toss on gender identity or what transition is or definitions. He just suggests that the ideology is damaging, harmful to society.

'Attempts to introduce new rights, which are not always acceptable, lead to instances of ideological colonization that create divisions rather than fostering peace, as in the case of gender theory.'

The Vatican has its own observatory, as well.

https://www.vaticanobservatory.org/

A lot of the South American bishops are known for being quite left wing. And if you read the social encyclicals of the late 19th and early 20th century, although they reject Marxism, you can see that in many ways they are also influenced by it. They inspired some interesting 20th century economists, like E.F. Shumacher who wrote Small Is Beautiful. And the Catholic Church was also behind quite a few 20th century cooperative and workers movements, in Spain, Canada, and of course there was Dorothy Day in the US.

They also have a lot of quite deep writings about intrinsic rights, and what they call the theology of the body, which are probably going a long way to informing the Pope's views on this topic, and are why the Catholic Church hasn't been susceptible to being taken in by gender ideology.

And if the ‘perception’, or delusion, stayed internal, there would be no problem. Gender ideology demands that we all agree the delusion is reality, and penalises those who refuse.

@PrawnLiberationFront
Given that you have no knowledge of the Pope's politics or values, the involvement of Catholics or Catholicism in Science or the meaning of the word perception, how do you think this debate has gone for you?

I am still waiting to see if we can get an answer as to why this one identity demand - to be seen as the opposite sex - is to be legislated for yet another identity demand such as age (and there are transgender people who are also transage) is not legally recognised at all? Why can a male who declares that they are a 6 year old girl attend primary school?

And why can the man who fully believes he is a snake and had extreme body modifications legally recognised as a snake?

The fact that no one person can explain why sex has become so different and so special that it can be legislated for where as other identities will never be, doesn't seem to worry those who entrenched in this belief that defies logic and science.

Also, why is Prawn so focused on binary gender identities? There are over 100 genders. Why do they not have provisions in law for each one? Why are all the other genders ignored by these trans allies? Isn't that transphobic?

And if someone feels just as strongly that they are a cat, why is that never mentioned? Why do we have to have this absurd notion that a male person can identify the 'perception' of this 'feeling' and call it 'woman' when all it is is their own concept of what a 'woman' is that is not based on the reality of being a woman. Only what they believe a woman might feel like. ie. a fantasy.

Which is significantly different to a female adult human dealing with the realities of their sexed body, and their reaction to that sexed body's needs, and other's reactions to that female adult human's sexed body. ie. reality.

The reality for a male who identifies as a 'woman' is that they are a male who 'identifies' as a woman but will never be a woman, only their built up concept of a woman. Only ever a male who will never be a woman, only their fantasy of what a woman feels like.

The contortions on this thread have been amusing, though.

Dylan mulvaney did a whole video series about it. Putting on a dress, prancing on tippy toes, tripping over awkwardly. There was lots to it!

Most people after a few Google episodes can establish the real "identity" categories quite easily.

The reality is missing from Prawns exhortations about 'authentic" and simultaneously completely non universal and yet even pre 2004 there's a ton of personal first person testimony about internalised homophobia or "becoming the woman you love" available to catch up on.

Threads like this skip over the actual record transsexualism has made of it's own authenticity for a sort of Disney version they have absorbed like the children they want Prawns to offer up.

And that should be

And can the man who fully believes he is a snake and had extreme body modifications legally recognised as a snake?

The pope puts his finger right on it when he talks about attempts to introduce new rights.

I agree with @PrawnLiberationFront 's description of the issue. I just dont think it's relevant.

It's a fact that some men think they belong with the women (it doesn't matter why) and that, even if they're against compulsory gender norm conformity in principle, in practice they usually adopt exaggerated feminine gender norms in order to persuade other people to socialise with them as if they were women. None of this is ideology.

The ideology comes in when they try to take away rights from other people, most importantly those that have been granted to women in order to mitigate the disadvantages that result from having a female body.

Prawn, given that transwomen do not have a female body, what is your justification for that?

I have thoroughly enjoyed this thread tonight 😃

Prawn, given that transwomen do not have a female body, what is your justification for that?

Nice example case from Spain - a bloke utilising the new laws:

https://reduxx.info/spain-male-soldier-claims-he-is-being-discriminated-against-after-being-prevented-from-using-female-changing-rooms/

“If a judge has declared me a woman, what does an army lawyer have to say about it?” he said to media.

In statements made yesterday to Diario de Sevilla, Francisco explained that he is pursuing avenues for possible legal action against the Army for failing to properly facilitate his gender transition.

How do you justify that without the answer basically being "it's what he wants" and "what one man wants is more important than what women need"?

Even if gender identity is your own internal feeling of what sex you are, a male person can only ever feel like an imagined idea of a woman. They may describe that feeling as of being female, but they cannot possibly feel like a female, because females do not feel a particular way. Therefore, their gender identity is not woman, but trans, since the inner feeling they have is one that is unique to trans people, not women.

I think someone upthread has the Pope confused with the Archbishop of Canterbury - who is all TWAW.

He’s been very clear humans cannot change sex; but he tries to balance that clarity (Male & Female He Created Them) with compassion towards individuals (eg almsgiving to trans prostitutes during Covid) & there has been the shift of allowing some transgender people to be baptised &/or to act as godparents.

Catholics not being noted for being Scientists did give me a giggle.

@PrawnLiberationFront should this male use female changing rooms?

What about female barracks, should he sleep in the same room as females?

Threads like this skip over the actual record transsexualism has made of it's own authenticity for a sort of Disney version they have absorbed like the children they want Prawns to offer up.

A very succinct and important point.

The sales version necessarily involves removing and de authenticating the reality. As if there's a fear that the authentic version and all the voices within the movement would damage the marketing of it.