Jane Clare Jones on purity spirals

[IamSarah]

Really insightful post on X the platform formally known as Twitter I feel it's worth sharing on here:

x.com/janeclarejones/status/1745760345954689255?s=46&t=NGJBRqkXgp1UazF5I8yjXA

So we stand that there is a demand for an apology for what doesn’t seem to be a lie about Rise, and may have been true according to the link posted by KJK. Plus an apology for saying that an AGP was allowed to speak at an event (using what I remember as being the exact same rule that was used to vilify KJK for the people attending the Brighton event and others since) which seems to also be true.

Plus an apology for saying a group was vile when that group’s website still has a live page vilifying the person saying the group is vile. I have called the action of having that page vile for months now. But apparently, the victim of the page needs to apologise for calling the group who still have the page up ‘vile’.

And I see no intentions of the initial Twitter thread posted for discussion accepting that there may be significant hypocritical issues that it fails to address in the lack of symmetry and balance.

I cannot think this thread is doing good.

I am all for posters going and posting to their hearts content on the specifically made board. Nothing is holding any poster back from doing so.

My issue with her is she wants to redo the whole equality act and some of the stuff she says makes it sound as if she fundamentally disagrees with the idea that people can be oppressed on the grounds of race. She is (in my opinion) using GC feminist concerns around definition of biological sex to enable her to scrap the whole thing.

I think the EA has been a force for good as it protects several disadvantaged groups from discrimination, including women. So I think that she's quite dangerous for women.

She also called a bunch of archaeologists "woke" recently for using standard forensic archaeological techniques and as a scientist I find that quite alarming! Science is not "woke"!

Forgive me if I’ve misunderstood, but from what I can work out from reading the thread, what seems to have happened is that you brought a Twitter spat, which had nothing to do with your court case, and nothing to do with FWR, over here using your court-case-related user name. The topic of the Twitter spat ie “guilt by association” has consistently provoked energetic debate and strong feelings on here. Meaning that there was no reason (that I’ve seen in the discussion) to expect things to be any different this time. So was your decision to use your court case-related user name partly because you thought it would act as a shield against any criticism? Or just an oversight (easy mistake to make with user names) when starting the thread?

I am not entirely sure what your purpose was in starting this thread @IamSarah it has nothing to do with your ongoing case.

You printed a screed of yeah but, no but style apology from JCJ regarding guilt by association, JCJ being one of the cohort of purported feminists who have waged a virulent campaign against one particular women's rights campaigner and those who support her, attend her events, etc.

The conclusion of JCJ's screed was that we must stop all the aggro except for that directed at that particular campaigner and those who support her and attend her events, apparently they are still fair game probably because those who are invested in traducing and vilifying her, her supporters and attendees at events are enjoying pouring out their vitriol far too much to stop.

And you expected posters on this Board some of whom have attended those events to do what? Accept the ongoing traducing and vilification?

As I said earlier you, JCJ and the others who participate in waging this war on those who don't behave or speak or vote as you want them to didn't not have to do this, you all chose to do it, revelled in it and will continue to do so.

It’s tricky because having someone such as KJW support an event might feel like evidence of the organisers not being transphobic and yet them being there does undermine many women’s concerns about the impact of GI, not the least from safeguarding.

The fear of being seen as transphobic seems to be one of the main things that separates the academic left from grassroots campaigners like KJK.

The academic left-wing types seem to need to keep showing that they're not transphobic. KJK doesn't care whether anyone thinks she's transphobic, and that's one of her strengths.

I don't understand why the academic left feel the need to discredit KJK. Why can't they just leave her to do her campaigning her way and they can do their campaigning their way? Ignoring her doesn't mean they endorse what she's doing.

“The fear of being seen as transphobic seems to be one of the main things that separates the academic left from grassroots campaigners like KJK.”

That and caring what the Labour Party thinks about them.

AdamRyan

She also called a bunch of archaeologists "woke" recently for using standard forensic archaeological techniques and as a scientist I find that quite alarming! Science is not "woke"!

I’d not heard anything about this so just went to read about it. You’ve misrepresented the context somewhat, and as a non British origin woman my opinion of Badenoch has risen after reading her remarks and the context. The researchers sample size was risible, if that’s standard forensic archaeological technique it’s anything but scientific.

The academic left-wing types seem to need to keep showing that they're not transphobic. KJK doesn't care whether anyone thinks she's transphobic, and that's one of her strengths.

And since everyone including the milkman is now realising that the word 'transphobic' has little meaning beyond 'believes sex exists/women are human and have rights' and has lost all power, it's appearing as if 'racist' is becoming the new signal word to other righteous to withdraw the hem of their gown. And if you don't, you too are smelly.

Fgs, does it really matter more if women's right to single sex spaces is supported by possibly the wrong sort than if we lose women's spaces but all stayed immaculate and free from sin?

This.

I'm heart-sorry for what happened to you, @IamSarah . I admire you for bringing your case and I donated with pride. I hope against hope that you win.

I still think that the circular firing squad approach of lefty feminists like JCJ stinks and is incredibly counter productive.

They need to stop these tiresome attempts to inhabit the moral high ground, and just fucking stop sniping. As do we all and I'm aware I'm doing it here. Can there not just be a national 'Women Drop Hands and Start Again Day' or something?

I don't understand why the academic left feel the need to discredit KJK. Why can't they just leave her to do her campaigning her way and they can do their campaigning their way? Ignoring her doesn't mean they endorse what she's doing.

They hate her because she says in three words what they spend decades trying to write. As evidenced by the original 'missive' by JKJ.

They don't like non academics getting involved and when KJK called them out on all this going on, in universities, whilst they were being paid a decent wage to showcase 'Women's Studies', and they facilitated the transformation into 'Gender Studies' which lies at the heart of all this bullshit, they didn't like being told that this all happened on their watch.

I, personally, don’t care whether people get on, whether they love or hate each other.

It is the dishonesty that makes my teeth itch (did I get the saying right?) .

Not All Academic Feminists Are Like This 😬

(shout out to Heather Brunskell Evans : https://savageminds.substack.com/p/policing-adult-human-females )

Agreed. The two things I cannot bear (and which I will admit often cause me to be extremely snide) are dishonesty and hypocrisy.

KJK has been massively successful in raising awareness, money, and events.

She’s short circuited the usual routes and the usual allies in favour of a blunt, unconditional clarity and absolutely no interest in grey areas, being kind, or anything else that slows down progress.

In local work I’ve been scuppered so often by attempts to ‘bring people with you’, ‘establish consensus’, document the need etc. it’s always so much more effective to just do it yourself- but at your own expense.

I wonder if there’s an element of jealousy there too in some cases, when they see how much higher KJK’s profile is. Also, as someone said upthread, the SFW events are as grassroots as it gets. No need to even afford a ticket or be organised enough to do your booking before they sell out. All any woman has to do is turn up & she knows that if she wants a platform, she’s got one.

Agreed. The two things I cannot bear (and which I will admit often cause me to be extremely snide) are dishonesty and hypocrisy.

Amen to that.

Thanks for sharing.

“Keen began to eschew left-wing feminism, arguing it is more concerned with appeasing its socialist masters than standing up for the sex-based rights of women and the protection of children.”

It’s hard to disagree with that analysis.

Especially as JCJ acknowledges that (concern about any risk to future influence with a Labour government post-election) herself in the OP’s Twitter thread.

Agreed. The two things I cannot bear (and which I will admit often cause me to be extremely snide) are dishonesty and hypocrisy.

This. And particularly when there is self righteousness involved, on all sides.

I think that also, that if you make your living from something, you've a vested interest in it being complicated and difficult to solve.

I agree with pp who point out KJK has achieved cut through

Not many do, in this or other topics

That’s a success on her part

(not to detract from the court case for op)

That’s true. If all diseases were eradicated, a lot of people would be out of work.

I agree with all of this.

I don't post here much any more because of the group think and cliquiness, plus tendency to revert to personal attacks and misrepresentation if you are "the wrong kind of woman"

I'm late on this (pesky real life) but nice DARVO there. What you have described is the contents of JCJ's tweet, in a nutshell.

IMHO it was ill-advised for her to post the tweet, but even more so for OP to repeat it here using the 'Sarah' namechange. Many women here proudly support the campaign for single sex rape support, and it's not right to try to leverage that to smear other women or accuse other women of not feministing properly.