Jane Clare Jones on purity spirals

[IamSarah]

Really insightful post on X the platform formally known as Twitter I feel it's worth sharing on here:

x.com/janeclarejones/status/1745760345954689255?s=46&t=NGJBRqkXgp1UazF5I8yjXA

Also to add to that, should KJK, or any woman, be considered as 'aligning' with a person she gives any interview with or to any group that she sits on a panel for at a conference or delivers a speech at, rather than simply using the opportunity as so many other activists do of communicating her message.

So, if she goes on a mainstream TV show, does she become 'right wing' if people view it as 'right wing'? Does Fred Wallace become 'right wing' for sitting on a TV panel on a show that people deem as 'right wing'? Does Julie Bindel? If not, why are women such as KJK being vilified for this?

The world is going to shit and yet there are still 'feminists' defending the rights of men pretending to be women and pretending that WE are the crazy ones.

Having spent many years working with female victims of male violence, let me say clearly: WE are not the unreasonable ones.

I've lurked for a few years but have only just signed up. I don't have a free day to read all the posts and all the interesting links provided on this thread but I'll try and catch up at the weekend. I've dipped in and out but haven't spotted a reference to what's on my mind. If it's already been covered could someone point me to the page I need to go to where all will become clear to me?

There's something about the JCJ Tweet and various other things that have reminded me of Filia in Cardiff, where women from Brighton held a session where they basically said that to be a 'proper' feminist you had to be a hard-left socialist. They criticised Kara Dansky and KJK without actually saying explicitly what they were heavily implying, accusing them of working with the far right and the US religious brigade. Is this the same people and stuff?

This all seems very timely because I was recently sent a link to a Sisters Salon being set up in my area (not the Brighton area). I suggested to various GC feminist women who expressed an interest in going that the Sisters Salon may not be 'just' an opportunity for women to get together and talk. I told them about Ali Ceesay (?) and how the women behind it are pushing what I'd call a far-left ideology. As a result I've come in for a bit of a metaphorical kicking, but that's nothing new. Have I put 2+2 together and made 9 or am I roughly on the right track? Is this all the same purity issue? I'm not saying to any woman don't go to a Sisters Salon, by the way, but go in the knowledge that the women who've set it up hold a particular political ideology and think that if you don't you're wrong.

Bloody hell, Helle. The parallel only just struck me.

You are on the right track.

Yep this.

I don't feel defensive about KJK, she can more than stick up for herself.

But I do remember the Brighton event in particular where the outrage the following day wasn't about the fact that women speaking about their experience of being women had smoke bombs thrown at them, were shouted over and needed police protection. No, it was about the fact that some people attended and filmed/live streamed the event that was in public and being live-streamed by KJK.

Where was the outrage about the aggression we faced? Brighton academic feminists were curiously quiet about that.

Were they hoping we wouldn't notice that aggressive men in Brighton are out of control?

I believe woman we were told that no one was to anger or cause hurt feelings for the Labour Party supporters active or complicit in the aggressive and dangerous mob who protested. Because that would spook the Labour Party in Brighton where delicate talks were being had that would progress women’s and girl’s needs.

I could be remembering wrong.

Delicate talks that go to another school.

Welcome!

And yes. That’s about the gist of it.

Hope you are ok and have survived your metaphorical kicking more or less unscathed

FWIW I personally believe that far left women should be able to run the sorts of events they want to attend just as conservative women should be able to run the events they want to attend, and the same for women who used to be part of the left but currently feel politically homeless. It would be nice if we could all come together but I’m a realist and keeping things small and focused is more efficient anyway.

The thing I have a problem with is trying to shame, scold or ostracise women who aren’t into the super-left stuff and/or don’t want to mix with fetishy men (especially as there is one particular woman who is subjected to this shaming over and over. I didn’t have much interest in said particular woman until all this shaming started up and then I immediately recognised the behaviour pattern from secondary school).
I’m not in anyone’s ‘gang’ but I cannot abide snobs, bullies or penis-appeasing, so I’ve landed up on Team Domestic Zombie.

There were several threads re: the Filia event you mention, at least one has been linked somewhere on this thread (I realise that I have posted A LOT of links but I reckon they could all be read in less time than it takes to read even a third of an issue of Radical Notion 😬)

Abeona
The phrase I saw on this thread that applied best was "using feminism as a trojan horse for socialism". Can't remember who said it though. It's worth saying that it wouldn't be acceptable if it was another political philosophy being centred at the expense of women, but we are where we are. Women's rights should be universal, and our rights to freedom from VAWG shouldn't be dependent on our voting record at the polls.

OP
I hope you will think about what Helle said today. I am glad that JCJ has been a source of support to you, especially as she has been able to do that offline. I don't think online support is a true substitute for offline support, even if online support comes with offers of seeds and garden equipment.

However, unless she's said her face-to-face support is conditional on you acting as her messenger, and passing on that she thinks we're stupid and we smell right-wing and racist, could you just not? There's no need to personally confront us with what your new friends say.

It was incredibly hurtful.

They can come here and post under their own names if they like, if they need us to hear it. We are perfectly capable of following them on twitter, where none of them have been shy about airing their thoughts.

If we want to move away from all of it and form our own minilaterals (great term!), to work on women's rights our way, our disappearance shouldn't be a problem for them. Frankly I think the reason it is a problem, is because they confuse mumsnet with Bank of My Mum and they feel entitled to said bank. But we have had other threads about the mum, you're so BORING and you just don't get it! Now buy my book dynamic before. I assume you missed those too.

(I realise that I have posted A LOT of links but I reckon they could all be read in less time than it takes to read even a third of an issue of Radical Notion)

As one of the first posters said, I thought there was a conciliatory tone and mea culpa in JCJ's post but I can see many have interpreted it differently.

I don't think Jane Clare Jones possesses one iota of self awareness, Sarah, so I'm not seeing it.

That was a quick deletion!

Not sure what you said to get deleted!

I appreciate that I've come late to this and lack all of the inside knowledge, but as an older woman of working class immigrant background and with no degree in feminist studies, KJK has articulated my concerns about the trans movement, and she's been brave enough to do it in the mainstream, and she has acted as a spokesperson and representative for the majority of women like me. Same with Magdalen Berns from what I've seen of her stuff that's on YouTube. Also, Julie Bindel.

With an issue like this, one needs simple, clear messaging and campaigning. JCJ is clearly an academic and I can't understand what she's saying half the time. I'm sure her views are very interesting in academic circles but in the real world, it'sKJK all the way.

So KJW was and wasn't invited.

OP has and hasn't read the RN KJK special.

Schrödinger is hard at work on this thread.

No idea why I was deleted! How odd.

I haven't received a reply to my email to KJK btw @Helleofabore - sent it on Sunday so sent a chaser email.

Tinsel, Neighbourhood and Clog Lady, thank you for confirming my understanding. I know a lot of people here are clearly well connected and well-read and manage to keep on top of it all but for others it's a bit like trying to decipher code. Though not nearly as difficult as trying to make sense of the Radical Notion, as others have noted.

I totally agree that women of all political shades should be able to form groups, campaign and promote their beliefs, but this 'I am right and you are wrong' attitude is exactly the same as the MRAs who are out to erase women as a sex class. I'm not having it.

So is the plan to have lots of Sisters Salon groups to rival Local Standing for Women groups and the WRN? Yikes.

I don't think rivals is the right word. They may have fierce squabbles but ultimately have each other's back. Sisters?!

I know a few SS members who went to the SFW event, the two groups aren't mutually exclusive.

It may have been a rushed mistake but you haven’t taken it down which suggests you stand by referring to KJW as an esteemed guest.

Sorry that was a reply to this post:

IamSarah · Today 12:31

As I said to Tinsel, it was a rushed and thoughtless post at a busy event and I didn't foresee the reaction. And I am sorry to those it upset

It's been over a week now and the screen shot and 'platforming ' assertion was posted by an account with 10 x more followers than mine. I think that horse has bolted.