Jane Clare Jones on purity spirals

[IamSarah]

Really insightful post on X the platform formally known as Twitter I feel it's worth sharing on here:

x.com/janeclarejones/status/1745760345954689255?s=46&t=NGJBRqkXgp1UazF5I8yjXA

The event included a discussion of cross sex hormones so it makes sense to hear from people who have taken them.

From my perspective, whether or not it made sense would very much depend on the talk being given at the time. So, for example, if it was a talk by a pharmaceutical rep on the benefits of CSHs, then yes hearing from someone who’s taken them very much makes sense (to the pharmaceutical company).

In the context of a talk / event allegedly centring women, then no, it wouldn’t make any sense to me. If it were a woman talking about taking testosterone and being open and honest, maybe at a pinch if it included discussion on why they were moved to take it. But a man taking oestrogen, no.

It's been over a week now and the screen shot and 'platforming ' assertion was posted by an account with 10 x more followers than mine. I think that horse has bolted.

There's such a thing as a gesture of goodwill.

Understood. It's gone.

I have no idea, I just know that there's a 'how to start your own Sisters Salon' event planned in February in a city about 70 miles from where I live in the SW.

My metaphorical kicking hasn't been too bad. I find that I'm the one who says stuff out loud, people tell me I'm a hateful bigot and wrong and they don't want to know me any more, then a few weeks later a fair few of them are saying what I've been saying. I'm sure everyone's had that experience.

Ok thanks, I find that helpful.

Reading between the lines it sounds like there are other pressures at play here. I'm not unsympathetic but, when it leads to threads such as this going around in circles - as has happened on other threads like this that I've followed - then it's kind of frustrating.

And as we're getting near the end of this thread, I'll shoehorn in this as a general point: I am so over this idea that the left has a monopoly on feminism, and I'm thoroughly pissed off to hear about feminist groups giving the views of left wing men priority over the views of right wing women. I say that as a homeless lefty. Oh and that's another thing I'm pissed off about - that I feel the need to explain myself in those terms, but here we are.

I’d really recommend joining your local WRN group if you’ve got one, Abeona - mine is great and there’s a very clear understanding that everyone has their own politics & views on KJK, JCJ etc, and that’s fine.

I don’t know how to quote someone but I’m glad you’ve deleted it @IamSarah

As we close the thread, I invite readers to compare and contrast the progressive liberal/left attitude to male prisoners and their universal human rights with the attitude towards wrongthinking women.

There is no crime so vile committed by a male prisoner that it will make organisations like the ACLU wash their hands of him and his entitlements to human rights. They'll go further than that and demand he have things that aren't human rights, like cosmetic surgery to his genitals, access to female prisoners, and to be referred to by opposite-sex pronouns. He may have abused his own child, he may have killed multiple women, but it doesn't matter. These things are allegedly his rights, and so they are not conditional.

But when the first female witness came forward to report that a man with an erection had been in the women's hot tub on the women's floor at the Wi-Spa, people sought around for personal information to disqualify her. People checked her instagram, and found that she (allegedly, I never checked whether it was true) had posted Bible verses before. Once it got out that she could be a Christian, people got embarrassed about defending her right to a male-free space!

Women's rights are apparently conditional upon them being suitably left-wing and atheist.

I'm already a member of the WRN and of other GC women's groups. I have no idea of the political beliefs of many of those involved. I'm actually a paid-up member of the Labour Party, have been for years. The only reason I pay my sub every year is that there are so many others involved, like me, who think the whole TWAW thing is crazy and are openly these days talking about not wanting their loyalty taken for granted.

Understood. It's gone.

Thanks Sarah.

The irony is, most of us are just as left wing as the Brighton Soc Fems. I'm a former Labour Party member, life long Labour voter, and former Trade Union Activist. I've probably done more for the actual proletariat than many of them have.

It's just some of us have had enough of being coercively controlled by left wing power structures 🤷🏻‍♀️

And I say left wing power structures but they're not really left wing any more if they think identity governs how society is organised rather than social class.

And wealth of course.

Yes I think free market economics which is quite individualistic was originally a left wing concept then new right so then social liberalism became more and more individualist to the point it becomes neoliberalism and essentially more right wing.

I know this thread has been painfully frustrating at times but I've found it helpful. I can see why resentment has built up.

What do you think you might do differently as a result of it?

Giving men an inch or they'll take a mile is a hard lesson to learn because everything in our socialization has groomed us to be kind to men despite evidence to the contrary. I have no idea how old you are, but I know I keep making these mistakes despite my age and experience. Many of us have had a momentary lapse in judgement like posting a picture on social media and not thinking it through or rationalizing it because that's sometimes easier. Human nature is to defend your friends and the people who you think are your allies.

I commend you, @IamSarah for sticking it out and listening to everyone. Including the repeated nitpicking of 'how will you do better' (you'll find that some people are never satisfied until you've worn your hair shirt in the public square). I personally think that your apology was honest and of goodwill.

Being a victim of rape should not include a public accounting for all your other mistakes, but here we are in the age of social media. I hope your rape crisis support case goes in your favor and I hope in the future women's events will be for all women, not men, and that we can find ways to work together on shared goals. Maybe one single goal for women's groups/events should be: no men ever, regardless of how they identify. It's just never worth it.

Given all the things that have happened over the years, I think frustrations are inevitable and I'm sure there will be more to come. But I was pleased to see you come back to the thread - I won't lie, I didn't expect you to!

However things pan out, I wish you well with your case.

Thank-you

Thank you for the kind words, that was unexpectedly warm and fuzzy

I'm a firm believer in having no regrets, if you don't look back at yourself and cringe you haven't grown as a person.

Interesting question Tinsel. One thing I've learned is not to post pictures on social media after 2 large G&Ts.

I've only just seen this, I'm afraid.

At the risk of unfuzzying, I couldn't care less what a cross dressing bloke has to say about his cross sex hormones. Given why I think they take them, I wouldn't trust a word they say.

And I'm not suggesting anything as a way forward.

My point was I don't respect men who cross dress, because it's sexist. Katy Went seemed to think they should be respected because they're polite about it.

Also, it wasn't about a photo, it was about the evident photo bombing and calling him esteemed. Which, of course, you have every right to do.

And other people have every right to point out the hypocrisy of defending all that, whilst at the same time supporting the vilification of Kelly Jay Keen for having randoms show up at her rallies that she hasn't invited, doesn't photograph, and doesn't call esteemed.

Glad the photo has gone now, though!

Thanks for this update too. I would hope you get a response. I think taking it off line is the best way but that is also fraught with spam filters. These days it might be hard to make sure she sees something in the flood of abuse that she must get each week. But you have tried.

Squeezing this in before the end, not read it yet but Lily Maynard’s posted her blog.

https://lilymaynard.com/sisters-salon-barnes-lewis/

Illuminating read. Thanks Empress.

'Thank you for coming here to share your story,” said Helen, “and I understand you want to support your kid, the one thing I would say is that Katy Jon Went who is here tonight does run some services for parents of gender questioning youth and speaks to them about the idea about slowing down. I would say the best practise that we know of is talking therapy, just talk talk talk talk and get real support.”'

.

From Lily's piece.

I’m not sure which of the women on the stage said:

“Might this be this an opportunity for Katy to say a few words, if you’re comfortable doing that Katy? Do you want to lift your hand up..”
“Let me give you a bit of background on Katy,” said Helen, enthusiastically.
There was a lot of she-ing and her-ing, and Linda Bellos and Julie Bindel were mentioned and Katy has evidently “been involved in a lot of dialogue between transgender activists and feminists” and she… and her… and she and… I really appreciate her for bringing a different perspective that I don’t share so that’s the spirit in which I want her to speak to you tonight about the work she does.”

“I wouldn’t say I was the other side,” said Katy,with a light laugh,” in the sense that I’m open to new information… and continue to listen to both sides.”
“Full disclosure I was married to a psychiatrist…
my own psychiatrist called me the most reluctant transsexual he’d ever met…

James Bellringer was my surgeon as an adult…”

At this point I was just imagining how that poor bloody father felt, having come here looking for some sort of guidance on how to help his child and now being obliged to listen to Wait telling a room full of people about his ‘gender reassignment’ surgery.

It all felt very surreal: ironic that we were at an event where one of the main points of discussion had been unqualified people wielding undue influence, yet not only had Wait’s ‘parents’ group’ been recommended, but here he was talking to us all as if he was giving a presentation.