Jane Clare Jones on purity spirals

[IamSarah]

Really insightful post on X the platform formally known as Twitter I feel it's worth sharing on here:

x.com/janeclarejones/status/1745760345954689255?s=46&t=NGJBRqkXgp1UazF5I8yjXA

You are certainly not alone. And many of us have seen this play out on twitter so we know what has motivated the thread by JCJ.

I also very much dislike the use of different personas to manipulate women. It is quite simply wrong.

Stepping in where angels fear to tread-

Was it a gender critical feminist event?

I can understand that an event about transitioning children will attract a wide range of people.

Do we want those kind of events to be open only to GC feminists? Or was it part of a bigger event?

I find it really hard to see how to support events and keep TRAs out- necessary to allow the event to happen given the disruption they plan- while keeping it open to everyone interested in learning. I don’t know how the organisers manage, it must be really hard.

Sorry Tinsel, what does this mean? Different personas? Are you talking about socks?

Do ignore me if it’s too irritating to explain. I realise I’m out of my depth in dangerous waters!

There's a difference between being unable to keep them out, and specifically inviting them, then tweeting glowingly about their presence.

That's a shame, because it wasn't snide.

As per JCJ's post there should be room for different opinions and approaches.

Accusing left wing feminists of manipulation, and manipulating for cash is unnecessary. If you don't like an event, don't come. If you don't want to support a campaign for single sex rape crisis therapy don't support it.

If you are talking about about name changing because of my court case then that really isn't manipulation. I was granted anonymity by the court due to being a rape and sexual abuse survivor. My legal team are really strict that I don't do anything to compromise anonymity. Posts from my other username had lots of identifying info.

Your response again is manipulative and misses my point that promoting men who use single sex spaces undermines a campaign for single sex spaces.

Also you are attempting to pull rank.

That aside, this episode also underlines again how prominent feminists cannot see when they are being groomed and force teamed by AGPs. They think grooming is something that only happens to the lessers.

Women in this movement have spoken out about how they have been groomed by "reasonable transexuals". Detransitioners also talk about how AGPs groom them, but the gentry left think none of this applies to them.

I have had a very busy week and might have missed something, but why is KJW considered 'esteemed' and why was he at an event that seemed to be at a female only venue?

It isn't a purity spiral to ask why he has managed to get himself the centre of attention/universe yet again.

I seem to see more and more the arguments are being caused by the forced teaming and forced entry of males than by anything else. I guess nothing much changes.

KJW is extremely skilled at forced teaming.

“the UK GC space, especially on twitter, has progressively merged with both the US MAGA/Christian nationalist space, and those of UK white nationalists”

Frankly that bit ^^ reads like paranoia.

Absolute hogwash.

As someone who was groomed by a predatory peadophile as a child I do understand the dangers of grooming.

I don't see being civil to trans women as being a victim of grooming but perhaps that is where we differ.

Ok this sounds like the same old bollocks yet again, so I've lost interest.

It's the same old bollocks again but this time I'm incredulous at the non apologies from someone esteeming a creepy cross dresser online whilst simultaneously expecting donations from the allegedly MAGA adjacent to facilitate excluding the esteemed creepy cross dresser when it suits them.

This group of Brighton women are as dim as they come.

Again you're being snide. Invitations and celebratory photos are much more than mere civility.

KJW was given the same status as Stock and Bindel. That is huge for him. If by doing that you gave him far more than you thought you had, ie you were aiming for civility, you should reflect on how you were manipulated into letting that happen.

There is no shame in being a victim of manipulation or narcissism as an adult. We've all been there at some point.

I take 6 weeks off from my feministing and miss something huge.

Bloody hell. No idea what your all alluding to. Off to find out.

As a movement, we have spectacularly failed to discuss either these sets of concerns in anything resembling a calm and sensible manner and have failed to extend good faith to each other over legitimate points of contention. That makes me personally very sad, and politically, I think we are all very much the poorer for it.

So (to me) it reads like it makes her very sad but it's not up to her to fix it by extending good faith to the other side because it's us that's wrong. So maybe not an olive branch?

I should add further evidence of KJW's influence is you referring to him as any kind of woman.

I don't know who KJW is, so much of this debate is difficult to follow. It does seem to me that IAmSarah is being quite generous and conciliatory, though.

Also I find insults like "gentry left" about as helpful as the phrase "latte-drinking elite". Basically, they're people you disagree with. If you want a constructive debate, just say why you disagree with them rather than pin silly labels on them.

After her massive fubar she's being generous and conciliatory!

Righto.

She went on and on about how superior to everyone she is at length yesterday on Twitter.

.

I disagree with them primarily because they have chosen to promote "reasonable transexuals" like Katy Jon Went and Debbie Hayton as a deliberate strategy to head off accusations of trans phobia and that they won't admit that this is unfeminist and at the expense of trans widows. They think that we are a price worth paying.

I've been speaking and writing about this for several years now. I'm not being obtuse or vague about what I disagree with.

There's many other things I disagree with them about but that would be an essay longer than JCJ's. Essentially I find them feminists who are insufficiently female focussed.

They promote Hayton who wrote the policy they are trying to get out of schools.

I don't get it, I really don't.

Also I find insults like "gentry left" about as helpful as the phrase "latte-drinking elite". Basically, they're people you disagree with. If you want a constructive debate, just say why you disagree with them rather than pin silly labels on them.

The opportunity for constructive debate with the author of that Tweet and members of her group left the building a long, long, time ago. Perhaps you should have a scroll through at the silly labels (downright offensive and sneery is a more apt description) they pinned on any woman who didn't bow down to them, hail their superiority and toe their party line.

Still the ridiculous, unfounded accusations from them: “the UK GC space, especially on twitter, has progressively merged with both the US MAGA/Christian nationalist space, and those of UK white nationalists. There is another thread asking for actual evidence of this be interesting to see if any is produced, I doubt it as it is, frankly, risible bollocks.

As Hepwo said :

It's the same old bollocks again but this time I'm incredulous at the non apologies from someone esteeming a creepy cross dresser online whilst simultaneously expecting donations from the allegedly MAGA adjacent to facilitate excluding the esteemed creepy cross dresser when it suits them.

Never a truer word spoken.

That aside, this episode also underlines again how prominent feminists cannot see when they are being groomed and force teamed by AGPs. They think grooming is something that only happens to the lessers.

Just thought this needed repeating.

Also.those MAGA people so many despise are all of my (Mexican) neighbors. They're wonderful people who know a lot more about what's going on in American politics than British victims consumers of the Graun/BBC.