Jane Clare Jones on purity spirals

[IamSarah]

Really insightful post on X the platform formally known as Twitter I feel it's worth sharing on here:

x.com/janeclarejones/status/1745760345954689255?s=46&t=NGJBRqkXgp1UazF5I8yjXA

You are not lightweight! It's the Internet! Nothing can keep on top of everything posted.

My perspective is I get a lot of flack from maybe 4 or 5 posters because I'm politically very different to them and they don't like different opinions being posted. This is across political as well as feminist threads. Its become personal, but my values are such I find it very hard not to counter when I see misinformation that damages women being posted.

I also have a bad habit of answering questions. Need to stop really as it does nothing apart from invite attacks and smears.

So have they changed since 2011? Do they no longer accommodate males who think they are women in the women's shelter?

KJK said "The rape crisis/shelter called Rise includes men as women, unless they've now stopped."
https://twitter.com/ThePosieParker/status/1745071543137235303

If they've now stopped, all anyone had to do is tell KJK that this is no longer the case. It seems to me that she wasn't lying, but she may have been mistaken, if their rules have now changed. She has invited Rise or anyone speaking on their behalf to correct her if her understanding is wrong. Why has no one done this?

I think starting this thread in the "Sarah" persona was a strategic error.

I'm inclined to agree.

Me too.

I hope they have stopped.

If they have stopped, perhaps Rise could put out an official statement, explaining that Kellie Jay’s info was out of date?

I’m sure KJK would be pleased to see an official statement about female only spaces.

I know I would.

Gosh that video was infuriating!!

FFS and OMG! !

So my declining oestrogen means I’m less of a woman. He was a woman before having oestrogen but now he’s going to look like one. And he needs to feel a small prick in his bum.

At that point I switched it off, or my dentist would have been cross.

Strategic error 😂

I think constant snide remarks and swipes at a rape survivor trying to secure a vital single sex space for all women is a strategic error if you actually care about single sex spaces. But you do you.

Not knowing anyone here or even those more public like Helen Lewis, I was confused by the initial post. Reading replies, it’s been interesting to realise there’s a schism between some GC women happy to? prepared to refer to men as ‘she/her’ and others not. On balance, and never having heard of KJW but looking at their photo, I’d be in the latter camp I think. I still find it insulting that a blatantly male person is claiming female status.

The separate issue of campaigning for a single sex rape relief therapy I will, of course, continue to support regardless. Yet, I’m mindful of the dissonance between campaigning for SSSs whilst simultaneously appearing to support biological males claiming to be the female sex. That circle doesn’t square for me. Plus, saying ‘sorry you’re upset’ is not really an apology. Nevertheless I can appreciate Sarah’s willingness to take on this court case, which must be horrendous and appreciate her doing so.

It’s tricky because having someone such as KJW support an event might feel like evidence of the organisers not being transphobic and yet them being there does undermine many women’s concerns about the impact of GI, not the least from safeguarding.

I think you should talk to your legal team, Sarah, and get their advice about social media posting. Genuinely.

I agree wholeheartedly.

You know what, I started following this thread because I thought it might indicate the start of a sea change and a genuine desire for some kind of rapprochement. I didn't expect the process to be easy or without rancour but I thought it sounded promising and definitely worthwhile.

Now, twelve hours later, I'm getting that old familiar feeling that all the thread was ever about was one woman, who may or who may not - I genuinely don't know - have posted something factually incorrect on another platform and who isn't even on Mumsnet to answer.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong and that there really is still a bigger picture somewhere but, if I'm not, then I'm going to be pretty cheesed off.

KJW is a semi regular on GB News, here’s KJW on Jacob Rees Mogg’s show recently (🙈)

If I remember correctly, AdamRyan was part of the group who campaigned for the separation. Is that correct, Adam?

I asked for it several years before the boards were separated as no feminist issues other than GC issues were being given attention any more. I thought it would be useful to have different topics so other kinds of feminist discussion didn't get lost. Things like the maternal mortality issue Arabella posted yesterday.
The unintended consequence was the splitting into two communities and the resulting tendency of topics to go across two boards and still not be noticed. Plus the "scolding" (as some like to call it) to go and post in chat if you don't like GC views. That's the opposite of what I was hoping for when I asked MNHQ to consider it. I think it was around the time of the IAmSpartacus thing.

We're not immune from criticism because of our previous experiences or our victimhood.

It's only sustainable to have these two identities if you only use the "Sarah" one for things pertaining to your case.

You're allowing "Sarah" to bleed out into other things, thus risking your anonymity and the credibility of your case. I above all people get the temptation to let a profile that gets a lot of praise, expand, but if you're serious about anonymity, you can't do it.

Additionally, claiming to be doing a case for all women, whilst being extremely antagonistic to many women in the same persona also undermines the case.

I assume you may be in court having to justify all this under cross examination from a scary barrister at some point. Seriously you need to re-evaluate your approach.

The OP has clarified that she is happy to accept the money of Christian nationalists herself, so I don't seee why it should matter who else accepts funding from Christian nationalists.

Good point.

And needs to be repeated again and again.

It is the hypocrisy that needs to be highlighted with this group of feminists every single time.

“I asked for it several years before the boards were separated as no feminist issues other than GC issues were being given attention any more.”

Well, that’s simply not true.

That sounds to me like good advice from Tinsel, @IamSarah

There were many posters who accurately predicted what would happen if the two boards were split, which is why we were against it.

People who argued for the split seemed to be hoping that the sex and gender topic would become the tumbleweed one, because they misjudged how important this issue is for many women.

The number of threads about genderism compared to other feminist issues should have given you a clue about how this would go. The 'unintended consequence' might have been unintended, but was completely predictable.

I'd like to see the boards merged again, because I miss out on reading about other feminist issues because I have to remember to look for them on the other board.

Ooh that video from Cloglady has reminded me!
@AdamRyan you mentioned various people being bad earlier- Suella, someone else and Kemi.

What’s the issue with Kemi? I recognised why the other two are controversial. I’ve found Kemi pretty straightforward. What’s she done?

That sounds to me like good advice from Tinsel, @IamSarah

Hopefully it doesn't get lost it the Adam derail.

I don’t care either way but if someone needs to get away from the gender board and creates a new one to do it nothing is stopping them from using it

I’m happy to chat to other women focussing on gender and don’t need all the negativity on how FWR isn’t the right kind

There’s another board now

I am thankful to the op for time and hardship this must involve but I do think this is a fair point

It does. @IamSarah I would consider asking for this thread to be deleted, and think on what Tinsel has said.