Kemi Badenoch statement re GRC recognition 6/12/23

[Signalbox]

From about 1.47

https://parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/a62238ef-8cdd-4407-8cc7-66bd96242a46?agenda=True&_gl=1161ausy_gaMTY4ODE4OTg5Ni4xNzAxODY5NzIz_ga_L0NJWDWMGN*MTcwMTg2OTcyMi4xLjEuMTcwMTg3MDIxNi42MC4wLjA.

Oldcrone, thank you for linking that Az Hakeem interview. That was a real eye opener into what's going on with transitioners of all ages. And really hit home the fact that it's not just one thing. Even within transvestism, even within the subset that is fetishistic cross dressing, it's not just one thing. And nobody can say this man hasn't "talked to trans people". He has, professionally, over a number of years.

One thing I found particularly interesting is his neutral stance. While he will describe some things as perversion, he's doing this in a clinical sense. He's clear that some fetishes, while they are a perversion of normal sexuality, are harmless. And others are not. And it's not his place to rule which are which, he is just describing reality and it's up to society to discuss and agree rules off the back of that.

Might be another book to add to my expanding gender critical library. Seems like everyone's writing books these days.

We’ve got this to look forward to as well. The days of “no debate” are well and truly over it seems.

https://committees.parliament.uk/event/19766/formal-meeting-oral-evidence-session/

Kemi Badenoch to face Committee’s questions on equalities issuesThe Women and Equalities Committee (WEC) question Kemi Badenoch MP, Minister for Women and Equalities and Secretary of State for Business and Trade on Wednesday, 13 December.
WEC Chair Rt Hon Caroline Nokes and members of the cross-party committee scrutinise a wide range of issues within Cabinet Minister Ms Badenoch’s remit. It is her second appearance before the Committee following her appointment in October 2022.

Live Stream…

https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/41208ebe-60ce-4f19-99d4-0edc4e99e384

Some good points are being made here.

There is a very well known public figure and speaker in this debate who advocates for 'loving relationships' by which he means sexual ones, between adult males and boys of nine I think was the age specified, as due to his personal experience this has done no harm, and he appears to be expressing a belief that safeguarding children from this is preventing their opportunity to share the experience he or boys of his experience had as children.

Anyone with a basic versing in safeguarding and human behaviours recognises that abuse violates personal boundaries and can lead to adults living with boundary difficulties they may or may not yet be aware of. The relationships board supports women with this all the time. It can also lead to some adults advocating for things to happen to children or seek for others to confirm things as acceptable and good because of their own need for confirmation and support of their own choices. Particularly highly emotional ones, and particularly ones where for them to pause and consider that perhaps adults could and should have protected them better; that perhaps the adult telling them they were acting for their best interests was in fact exploiting them; or that their choice was not the only one or the right one or an ethical one would be too distressing and overwhelming for them to face. I have seen women on the relationships board openly share that they were abused by a family member or partner as a young woman and are therefore damned if they're going to see other women encouraged to say no, have boundaries and escape the abuse in their turn because it's too distressing for them to face that they could have avoided the abuse and the wreckage it has caused in their life. They angrily try to force the woman to stay and be abused quietly without a fight rather than face and try to process those feelings.

However children, whether your own or other people's, are not there to be used as resources for the support of adult emotional problems. Schools are not a holding pen for resources to be found for use. And this is again why those with such powerful personal involvement should not be advising or advocating others. And if they were qualified to do so, trained to do so, and operating within a field of proper ethics and supervision, they and their supervisors would remove them from such a position on the grounds of it being unethical.

“However children, whether your own or other people's, are not there to be used as resources for the support of adult emotional problems.”

Yes.

And from the posts that we have seen on this thread, we have seen an adult exploiting children or teens for what seems to be political gain. The words used were “my position as a local trailblazer and supporting pillar of the local trans community”.

Then followed by posts victim blaming children and young people who detransition. Blame for not making fully informed decisions, and for publicly speaking up to raise alarms and force clear and evidenced discussion.

The disconnect when you see it is very worrying.

And that is just on this thread. Multiply it out and you have a community who seems more focused on sustaining itself and forcing changes to society that harms others than genuinely helping these children and young people. The hypocrisy is that their own community have made these children and young people’s lives “ a political battleground.” Through forcing narrow treatment policies, spreading very dangerous misinformation and building fear through creating isolation and division.

The hypocrisy is stark when you get that opportunity to see underneath the words, sometimes word salad.

https://genderedintelligence.co.uk/education/professional-consultancy
there’s a lot at stake for trans advocates, not least, being paid £100/hour plus expenses for gender education

Caroline Noakes just wants another opportunity to try scolding Kemi Badenoch - it didn’t work out well last time because Kemi is very much on top of her brief, and has read widely on the subjects involved, whereas Caroline & Co prefer to chant, aggressively, 'be kind' 🤷‍♀️

Fab post @Froodwithatowel.

I wish your comment could be pinned at the top of this and every other board where we discuss children:

"children, whether your own or other people's, are not there to be used as resources for the support of adult emotional problems. Schools are not a holding pen for resources to be found for use. And this is again why those with such powerful personal involvement should not be advising or advocating others".

She’s always so rude isn’t she? Every question is a failed gotcha. She just makes herself look like a bully.

We’ve got this to look forward to as well. The days of “no debate” are well and truly over it seems.

I am looking forward to Kemi responding in the same spirit to the craven, male-pandering Caroline Nokes, not for the first time.

The tiny handful of binary detransitioners who have become a vocal part of the anti-trans culture war do not in any way speak for all detransitioners

I wasn't talking about "binary detransitioners". I wasn't even thinking about them. Is that really what you imagine this is all about?

I was just talking about some young people whose mental health problems were appallingly mismanaged by the experts who were supposed to be helping them. And as you should be aware, a lot of young people with terrible regrets don't physically detransition because it's either impossible to undo what has already been done, or it's too dangerous.

It is particularly horrifying to see how many detransitioner communities serve as dogmatic cults of personality organised around a tiny group of culture warriors - this is a recurring theme reported amongst those who have escaped them.

You are horrified by "detransitioner communities" online. I am more horrified by the real-life treatment of real young people by supposedly expert medical and psychological professionals who turned out to not to know wtf they were doing. And often still don't.

I can't speak for them directly - my journey has in many ways been the polar opposite of theirs, but their experiences are real things that occurred and they deserve to be unconditionally supported rather than paraded about as trophies.

Look, you can believe what ever makes you feel better. But the facts are not on your side. The medical / psychological gender experts could have done follow ups that would have said how many people there are with all these different experiences. They could have a pretty good idea what the outcomes of different strategies are by now. The studies weren't done because too many of them committed to affirmation and medicalisation too early on too little evidence. They didn't (and don't) want to see that they might be doing more harm than good. So they didn't do the research that would have told them what they didn't want to hear.

My god there are some absolutely fantastic posts from women on this thread.

I am in awe every day of the breadth of knowledge, turn of phrase, intelligence and wit of all of you!!

And best of all, @rhywlodes , you can steal some of them and use them elsewhere! 😃

I know @duc748 !! I can't speak plainly everywhere, but when I can, I do, and I learnt most of it here!!

There's a thread about that interview here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4958784-before-and-after-trans-was-cool-with-dr-az-hakeem

Thanks to everybody who has given up their time to respond to the type of post I often think shouldn't be responded to as a whole thread gets derailed to focus on the issue outside of the spirit of the thread.

But it does mean, that for the future these points are made. I say this often as I hope someone can think of how to do it, but I really wish we had an indexing or tagging system on this forum, so that in the future you could pull out relevant posts.

Amongst all the other posts that have gone into detail, just want to remind those who might have forgotten, that Scotland may think 16 is old enough to decide on non reversable surgery, but on the other hand Scotland thinks that males of 25 and under shouldn't be held accountable for sexual violence as they haven't matured enough to understand what they are doing. Not only does it expose 16 is old enough as total crap, but also indicates that the female victims of young males are just collateral damage to men's inability to understand that the world doesn't revolve around what they want, or their view of the world. Although to be fair to young men, many older men still haven't reached maturity.

Amongst all the other posts that have gone into detail, just want to remind those who might have forgotten, that Scotland may think 16 is old enough to decide on non reversable surgery, but on the other hand Scotland thinks that males of 25 and under shouldn't be held accountable for sexual violence as they haven't matured enough to understand what they are doing.

I certainly haven't forgotten, or forgiven.

Great post retire! It can be frustrating when anti women / anti safeguarding children folx pop up and derail threads. BUT you're right - there have been some superb contributions in response on this thread & it's useful to demonstrate the lack of ethics & care behind these demands that young children must be transitioned because it suits certain male interests.

And I think that's what the saved heart is for? You can save some of the great posts from women on here in a Saved folder?

Amongst all the other posts that have gone into detail, just want to remind those who might have forgotten, that Scotland may think 16 is old enough to decide on non reversable surgery, but on the other hand Scotland thinks that males of 25 and under shouldn't be held accountable for sexual violence as they haven't matured enough to understand what they are doing. Not only does it expose 16 is old enough as total crap, but also indicates that the female victims of young males are just collateral damage to men's inability to understand that the world doesn't revolve around what they want, or their view of the world. Although to be fair to young men, many older men still haven't reached maturity.

I'm not in Scotland and I had forgotten that (although I think I saw something about it on here).

https://unherd.com/thepost/why-is-scotland-no-longer-jailing-all-rapists/

This piece of scum was jailed, but he got a reduced sentence due to his age.

And I think that's what the saved heart is for? You can save some of the great posts from women on here in a Saved folder?

Yes, but I was being a bit more FWR is important to the world! ie there should be an online index so that anyone who wants to hear / read the true word on women's sex based right can bring up a list of links to well informed and enlightening posts!!!

FWR does seem to punch above its weight so to speak. There was a time when you could read a thread and then see the details repeated in the Times the following day.
Now that #nodebate is over, there are so many places where women's rights, safeguarding children, the prevalence of predators etc are talked about (pleasingly repeatedly in parliament).
It makes me laugh that we still have the anti women lot lurking and reporting - have they not noticed what the general population are saying about all this everywhere else? 😂

So, you aren’t one of the paediatric patients prescribed GnRHa drugs then?

Because 2 and half decades ago would be late 1990s and by 2002 the Dutch clinic had only prescribed to 7 patients in total, and GIDS none at all.

So whatever un-evidenced medical intervention was inflicted upon you, it’s not the same one as is happening to children now (and presumably the current awfulness is considered to be better than you were given!)

I feel very sorry for little you, you should’ve been helped to grow into a healthy adult male body.
No little boy should be deliberately growth stunted into a crude approximation of a female without so much as a mid term follow up.

Such a desperately sad situation, so glad we’ve got Kemi to help us put a stop to it. History will not look kindly on the doctors who harmed such vulnerable children.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2022.2121238