Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 5

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

NS - I'm really sorry IF this was upsetting (to JP)

'Vulnerable people'

NS: sorry if JP etc upset. But we are being asked to think c upset of GCRN members and we are not thinking about the poor student who realised his univ supported a GC network

NS: Yes but in my experience the GC people get listened to, have power, get the platforms and it's the t and nb people who are sidelined.

🤣🤣🤣 my god do these people seriously believe this?

Btw it may help to be aware that Associate Lecturer in the OU is what used to be called Tutor. This particular witness has a PhD from Nottingham in 2017 and, as far as I can see, no peer reviewed publication ever.

Darvoing like a queen

NS: Yes but in my experience the GC people get listened to, have power, get the platforms and it's the t and nb people who are sidelined.

Does she live in a parallel universe?

Copied from TT

BC: this was first ever GC RN. Because academia very hostile.
NS: Not sure
BC: can you see how upsetting to claimant.
NS: Yes I do am sorry if upsetting but what upsets me is we only talk about hurt to GCRN instead of trans / nb ppl affected.
NS: why are we not talking about hurt to this vulnerable member of the OU who found out it was supporting a GC network.

But we are being asked to think c upset of GCRN members

Yes, that's what the tribunal costing hundreds of thousands of pounds is being brought about 🙄

It's breathtaking - in one breath apologising if the tweet and letter caused distress to Jo, but then in the next breath wanging on about the distress of an unnamed student ever so upset that the GCRN even exists.

No acknowledgement that the whole point of them being there is the distress caused to Jo

Is that supposed to be a justification? If Nicola did not know it would cause distress, does that suggest a worrying lack of reflective thought and care?

OK my thing is why is this witness ignoring - as a woman - the real harms that have happened to adult human females

This is a great witness. Shows that the ONLY concern was trans/non binary. No other concerns.

BC: You were doing retweeting because disagreed that univ support a GC network. Incl defamatory comments

NS: My ac freedom means I am expected to raise unpopular concerns. Ac freedom means I am required to speak up

It seems pretty clear from these witnesses that GI is a belief system with intolerance at its core.

Believers use the social media pile on, no-platforming, the open letter pile-on, dodgy research, misinterpreting statistics, redefining language, the rent-a-screaming-mob, the complaint mob, etc. to force their views onto people who have an equally protected GC point of view.

Why would the OU support a grouping that is this intolerant of others?

These people in the OU just formed a circle jerk of righteousness, outraged that the GC network was allowed to exist. They wound up & reinforced each other & not once did they stop think of JP as a human being and the effect on her

the very thing they’re always accusing GC people of doing

Quite.

I rarely drink, but I'll need a straightener after today and this week, and I've only been a looker on. Goodness knows how BC and JP feel.

NS: My ac freedom means I am expected to raise unpopular concerns. Ac freedom means I am required to speak up

Err hello? I'm embarrassed for this woman at this point.

Name change for new thread. Reading back through this afternoon now.

No more qs. Pity we missed that. A true believer.

God I feel embarrassed to have a Humanities degree from the OU. These people are making the place look like it has all the intellectual rigour as a blancmange.

BC finished with NS

Judge having a conflab with P members

My thoughts are that GC is a protected belief. That does not justify actual transphobia but of course it does make it protected to use terms like 'transwoman' and to set up the GCRN. People who have opposing views do not have the right to not be offended. Trans people and their allies say things every day which GC people find offensive. There is no sense in saying it's a protected belief if you can't use language compatible with that belief (it's like saying religion is a protected belief, but don't mention god or the bible), or group with others who share your belief. The idea that they are not hostile is premised on their not understanding hostility.

Panel: how did students communicate their views to you?

NS: via looking on sm. Not contacting me personally. I went looking for students' views and trying to boost them so they knew staff were supporting them.