Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 5

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

You may attend in person or remote viewing has been quite limited but you can request log in details from

Email [email protected]

Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

The clerk will ask you (in a private remote room) to put your camera on to verify, this involves looking at you, but no ID is needed. You may turn off your camera after this pointless and unnecessary process.

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

Panel woman with lovely voice: You contributed to writing open letter. JP asked for it to be taken down. Do you know when it was taken down?

CW: No. Impt thing was to deliver it. Found conversation dismaying personally so I was trying to avoid the online arguments at that time.

tbf, I would consider actively keeping children away from adults so thoroughly in thrall to Lifton's 8 Criteria for Thought Reform.

CW interrupting the judge - not a great look. He can't list the policies which Jo definitely broke. And the OU should go beyond legal compliance to protect its students

CW Released

He doesn't consider for a second that Public Sector Equality Duty also involves the rights of women and girls.

Reeks of Stonewall law interpretation.

J: your WS - you refer to your concern c JP and co letter to STimes, that letter claimed right to assign gender to students against students wishes

CW: well...

J: haven't asked the q.

CW: I was referring to OU policy to respect students own GI. I understood there was a duty to go beyond mere compliance to overtly include its students. Says he might have misunderstood the rules.

These witnesses just can't help themselves - we're they prepared at all for giving evidence

You authored a 'pile on' against a colleague but were then too delicate to look at the results?

This is Stonewall law out loud, isn't it? "The Open University should [i.e., he thought it somehow had a legal duty to...] go beyond mere compliance" [with, you know, the actual law...]

And it was apparently unacceptable for Jo to sign a letter she believed in but ok for all of them to sign a letter when no one even knows who wrote it

'Labouring under a misapprehension'

I'll fucking say you were, you slimy bastard.

I find it incredulous that he thinks a gender critical woman should not be allowed around children when he needs to look at who it is that he is supporting.

Well I'm fairly sure if we had a poll on here about which of the witnesses we'd be happy for our children to be taught by, only JP would get a passing grade....

I'm sure the judge said Shapeshift just then!

😂

I'm a bit fed up (though I know it's how the court works) that all these witnesses are blathering on about inclusion and duty to gendered students without it being pointed out that by prioritising gender over sex you are excluding probably larger numbers of students / staff from protection and support.

Shhhhh inclusion only goes one way.

On the topic of pronouns. Have we managed a full court case yet where the judge and at least one of the respondents witnesses hasn’t accidentally correctly sexed someone?

Didn't we hear actual dead naming from Chris Williams?? 😫

KS is pro Vice Chancellor

This letter writing thing is reminding me of the song in Hamilton 'there was no one in the room when it happened'. Perhaps a parody of that from someone?

Not yet. Imagine if they did make it a crime, the courts would be even worse for all the cases.

Hopefully BC will make that point in his closing. Its so clear that in prioritising trans and NB feelings they deliberately and actively discriminated against anyone with GC views.

CW's evidence was jaw dropping. Yet again facts being left out of witness statement. BC seemed to suggest that there was a conspiracy of silence about the letter. The evidence definitely looks like he's right.

BC: When did SS join the group

KS: I don't have a precise recollection of that [this is pro VC speech for I can't remember]