Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 5

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

You may attend in person or remote viewing has been quite limited but you can request log in details from

Email [email protected]

Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

The clerk will ask you (in a private remote room) to put your camera on to verify, this involves looking at you, but no ID is needed. You may turn off your camera after this pointless and unnecessary process.

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

KS - the working group was meeting weekly from about Aug /Sept 2021.

I don't understand why being a member of a union has to be kept secret. Granted there are places where that could be actively dangerous. But this isn't the Amazon warehouse and don't most people have their subs deducted directly from their wages?

Sounds like a lame excuse.

The letter was written spontaneously in an early act of autonomy by Chat-GPT and everyone signed it in solidarity although agreeing with none of it.

Silicon Valley is now involved in covering this up but, unaccountably, forgot to spend money on training people how to present themselves, their WS etc. in front of an employment tribunal.

@RethinkingLife 😂

Re people not attending meetings in 2021

KS: I was putting a lot of effort into other initiatives

BC: It was June 2021 - because you were going to do a new strategy in second half of 2022 that's not a reason for people not attending events in mid 2021

BC: you are not being entirely straightforward with the panel in giving these reasons. [BC going in hard earlier witness by witness. He's had enough]

BC: This is a simple point at the start of a cross exam. You are being disingenuous already.

BC: so was prof Earle not being truthful in this para?

KS: I don't know.

Is there still space to attend remotely? I emailed last night but haven't received a reply, so wondered if they're not accepting any more applications?

So bullying is so bad that people are scared to attend and the low attendance is then given as a reason the network should not continue? I know the fear is very much true - I know two academics who actively avoid anything that could conceivably put them under the lens of the TRAs.

I think BC will be tough with this witness as he is senior leadership and in charge of scholarship at the OU so he should have dealt with this properly

@Coatandhat they say it is full I'm afraid

KS has read the Reindorf report

Yes @pronounsbundlebundle I went to the launch of the sec and gender book last week with a male colleague who really wanted to go but was scared to go on his own and is now worried because he thinks other colleagues (who were protesting) saw us there

KS - I read the Reindorf report, can't remember exactly when, it would have been around time of GCRN formation

Sorry, I'm a bit lost. Is the WG they are talking about the one set up to look into Jo's complaint?

I thought the Reindorf report would change things in universities as it was so clear - and yet here we still are

I think so @TeenDivided

Is this witness too busy, very important, or a true believer?

I think this witness (like IF) wanted this to go away so he could focus on his important work. And the easiest way to do that was to give in to the tantrumming toddlers and ignore the rights of Jo

BC: Having read the RReport, you were aware by time GCRN was formed c how a culture of fear could be formed among GC and this inhibits academic freedom

KS: depends on definition of culture of fear but agree broadly

BC: you should take steps to address and remove culture of fear

KS: yes

BC: did you understand OU had a duty not to discrim/harass GC academics on basis of their beliefs

KS: yes

I remember a famous experiment with 2 monkey groups that went something like this: The two groups were exposed to the same number of electric shocks (I think it must have been to get food or comfort as a reward). The monkeys that could control the shocks, by pressing a lever, had much lower cortisol levels. So the conclusion was if you have some element of control in a really stressful situation then it’s more bearable.

Poor JP had no idea who had written what, it’s all cloak and daggers. She had no control over an intolerable amount of stress as no one is prepared to account for themselves or their actions rationally. She had no support. It’s bizarre and kind of macabre when BC is dissecting it.

Re Savage Minds podcast

KS: I had concerns that GCRN was set up as network for anybody with any views, GC or undecided, to come tog to work. I was concerned some of podcast was a bit extreme for some people new to the game.

[he seems to be saying that the GC network was open and inclusive of all people, not just established GC. Surely that is even more reason for the other people in the OU to accommodate it?]

This is going to go the same way as IF. We've already had "before my time" answer, it remains to be seen whether his position is ultimately that he was reasonable and other people did all the bad stuff.

Yes. Yes. Given the name, it probably chances depending on audience and context?

If I had a pound for every time in my life I heard some pompous man tell me about his very important job.....

He's had a funny twist, from admitting that he understands the need not to discriminate and what that would mean, to utterly denying that moving the hosting of one network and not others would have been discrimination...