Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 5

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

I think it’s more likely that OU management are afraid to reign in the GI loons and the latter have been involved in running this case from the OU side and have self selected as the important ones to give evidence.

BC: you end with "Let's get together and mobilise some solidarity comrades"

[we are in The Young Ones]

Sorry for the silly question, but when people are typing out the dialogue, what does the small c stand for? Is it 'concerning'? Is that a legal thing or just shorthand?

I'm supposed to be preparing for a meeting at 12, but this is way more interesting 😀

I keep thinking that Chris Williams has something to do with Pilgrim's case?

I'm so glad that he was arrogant enough to be exposed in that email. They really are vile people.

What a hotbed of nastiness this all is. I can just see them all rubbing their hands together as they work out how to burn the witch.

There's Abigail 'Abi' Rowe and then Dr Boukli who uses 'Avi' for short. They sound very similar and it can be very confusing!

I'm just saying that the specific person researching trans prisoners with LD was Dr Abigail Rowe. See JP witness statement.

@Farmageddon I use c for circa (in all kinds of ways - around, about, etc). Not sure c others.

Is it just me or is this whole shutting down of debate and discussion actually not really in transpeople's best interests? I've mentioned this before as it pertains to healthcare.

If you can't discuss scientific facts, you can't provide the best care.

It's all just downright dangerous silencing of different opinions.

I like how CW is saying the 'force of the letter was not at the network participants' - how is he allowed to say how they feel when the whole ideology he is pushing is all about prioritising feelings, even if it does not correspond to reality?

His ideology says that it doesn't matter what he intended, it only matters how JP (and the others) felt - and it's clear how she felt - persecuted and bullied.

I'm reading it as 'about' (c, c., circa, about).

'Um' - answer from CW when asked why he has not mentioned in his witness statement that he helped write the letter.

Claimant perhaps

BC: did you contribute to the writing of the open letter

CW: yes

BC: why is that not in your witness statement

CW: long pause. Umm. Not sure what my brief was when I was asked to write the witness statement. Can you help me c that

BC: No

CW I'm not sure, can you help me BC? BC NO

Judge intervenes and says only you can answer that.

BC - you contributed to the open letter
CW - yes
BC - why isn't that in your witness statement
CW - (very, very, very long pause) I don't know.

BC claiming coyness from CW and others with regard to question and answers about the letter production etc....

Lots of backtracking here

BC going after if there was c organisation and coordination in drafting of the letter

I keep thinking that Chris Williams has something to do with Pilgrim's case?

She mentions in her crowdfund that the OU wanted to assign her a history supervisor who was a trans rights activist who then blocked her on Twitter and people suggest that may be him. I don't know what that's based on or whether that's been confirmed anywhere or if it's just a speculation by people who don't know.

I think the OU witnesses are all confused about who is on trial at this tribunal.

Should we have a whip round to buy the panel some hiking boots for the continuous peaking?

Scott Reid to play him in the film.

@pronounsbundlebundle I agree. Closing down debate all the time, controlling the narrative around research. It really isn't in the individual person's interests at all. WE KNOW BEST and yet they so clearly don't.

I'm mostly lurking here - thank you to everyone who is keeping us informed.

Quick question, can I just check - are these witnesses ones who the OU have put forward in order to defend their case?! Or just people who were involved and so are 'witnesses' for either side?

BC: Letter called for OU to deny institutional platform for GCRN

CW denies

[This is a constant theme. OU witnesses refusing to accept that the open letter calls for what it v obviously seems to be calling for]

@pronounsbundlebundle - it is definitely not in their interests to have no research done. It's one of the many puzzlers of this ideology: when everyone in the NHS is expected to practise evidence-based medicine and be able to justify every single thing they do, why is this particular client group subjected to medical interventions for which there is often no evidence or, if there is, it is weak? Why do normal standards not apply to this group of people? Surely this is a form of transphobia?

ALL OU witnesses.