Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 5

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

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Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

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Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

CW: [categorically] DD was not a member of any group in 2021

BC: who was a member then

CW: I'm reluctant to guess. Don't want to get it wrong or reveal union membership by giving any names

I was told something similar by my boss.

Don't commit to writing anything that you aren't prepared to see in letters a foot high projected onto a screen in a courtroom. (I was in a medical field, and many, if not most, medical professionals get sued at least once in their career, and have to justify everything).

Everyone is suddenly very shifty about membership of WA groups. I wonder if this witness has a new phone like the previous witness. Or maybe the phones fell into the sea?

BC .who was in the group
CW- I've already given you my name and Kit Power's name. Don't want to name anyone else because I might get it wrong. Also union business is protected by GDP so it should remain secret.

Ok, that explains why I’m disliking it, because I do perceive it as authoritarian. I did think maybe it arose as politician training from his Green Party affiliations.

i think the relief @RethinkingLife comes from him addressing the questions.

I’m nominating Chris Addison (as Ollie in the Thick of It) to play him in the film.

BC: you're not going to help us any further re who ws involved in group reacting to letter

[DD was JP line manager at this stage]

BC: your rationale for not inc line manager ?

roll up, roll up and watch BC tie CW in absolute knots

I’m nominating Chris Addison (as Ollie in the Thick of It) to play him in the film.

Ooh good call! He'd be perfect.

BC: we see visceral dismay that JP going to research t prisoners

CW: i wouldn't categorise my dismay as visceral

BC takes CW to an email in which he says he has heard JP will be researching trans prisoners and he understands that Julia would be dismayed by this.

Julia is Leigh Downes, pre name change.

Is he deadnaming LD?

CW, JP was demanding to be part of the Trans Prisoner research that Avi and Leigh were involved in.

Yes, CW has switched to using Leigh now.

yes - Ben pointing out that a proposal to do research doesn't involve an expression of gender critical belief, so that can't be what CW is objecting to. He explains that he understood Jo had "demanded" to be involved in someone else's research on trans prisoners: this was part of the "very fraught" relationship between Leigh and Jo and thought this had implications for Avi and Leigh's research. BC calls this "irrational" (which seems to be the epithet he wants us to associate with CW!)

"Dr Phoenix" - that's Professor Phoenix to you, ducky.

I think Julia is the name written in the document of the time.

Avi

It's Abi I think, who I think is Abigail Rowe, from memory from JPs statement

He's reacting to hearsay and gossip and not checking facts. What a brilliant academic he is (NOT!)

BC: you weren't in the claimant's dept.

CW: I was getting information an a member of HERC

@Ereshkigalangcleg I think Avi refers to Dr Boukli as that seems to be the preferred diminutive of Dr Boukli's first name.

I just listened to CW on his little OU video, and I can see him being played by Martin Compston using his 'Line of Duty' accent (with those occasional glottal stops).

In fact I could reassign the whole cast to this.

Abi was the one doing the research on trans prisoners with LD. Not Boukli.

There's Abigail 'Abi' Rowe and then Dr Boukli who uses 'Avi' for short. They sound very similar and it can be very confusing!

Oooh, I'm enjoying seeing people who identify as intelligent (but are in fact mediocre intellectually and make up for that with Umbridge-like levels of superiority and attempts to control others) meeting BC who is the real deal.

Do we think self reflection will ensue? No, of course not.

I think I'll avoid OU for further study.