Prof Jo Phoenix vs The OU - Employment Tribunal Thread 5

[ickky]

Started on 2nd October at Watford Employment Tribunal (Radius House, 51 Clarendon Rd, Watford WD17 1HP 01923 281750)

You may attend in person or remote viewing has been quite limited but you can request log in details from

Email [email protected]

Header should read

URGENT CURRENT CASE - Public Access Request - J Phoenix - The Open University - 3322700/2021

Ask for access link and pin and please give your name and address in the email as they check when you connect to the tribunal.

The clerk will ask you (in a private remote room) to put your camera on to verify, this involves looking at you, but no ID is needed. You may turn off your camera after this pointless and unnecessary process.

Abbreviations

JP - Jo Phoenix, Claimant (C)
OU - The Open University, Respondent (R)
J - Regional Employment Judge Young
P - Panel or panel member
BC - Ben Cooper KC, Counsel for C
JM - Jane Mulcahy KC, Counsel for R

OU Departments & Networks:

HWSRA - Health & Wellbeing Strategic Research Area
FASS - Faculty of Arts and Social Sciences
SPC - Dept of Social Policy & Criminology
KMi - Knowledge Media Institute
GCRN - Gender Critical Research Network

OU witnesses

PB - Dr Paraskevi Boukli, Former Senior Lecturer Criminology, Deputy Head SPC 2021-22
IF - Prof Ian Fribbance Dean of FASS
MW - Prof Marcia Wilson, Dean EDI, 2020-23
CM - Caragh Molloy, Group People Director 2019-23
LD - Dr Leigh Downes, Senior Lecturer in Criminology (in SPC), Academic Lead for EDI FASS 2019-21
PK - Peter Keogh, Professor Health & Society, Member RSSH
DD - Dr Deborah Drake, Senior Lecturer Criminology, Head of SPC 2018-21
CT - Catherine Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
LW - Louise Westmarland, Prof of Criminology, Co-Deputy Head SPC, 2018-21, Current Head SPC
JD - John Domingue, Prof of Computing Science, Director KMi, 2015-22
CW - Dr Christopher Williams, Senior Lecturer History
SD - Shaun Daley, Head OU’s Resourcing Hub. Head Strategic Resources, Co-Chair OU’s LGBT+ Staff Network
HBC - Helen Bowes-Catton, Lecturer Social Research Methods
NS - Nicola Snarey, Assoc Lecturer Eng Language
NatS - Natalie Starkey, Outreach & Public Engagement Officer Sch Physical Sciences, 2019-22
CT - Cath Tomlinson, Senior Student Advisor
SJ - Samantha Jacobson, Employee Relations Case Manager
RH - Richard Holliman, Prof Engaged Research, Head School Environment, Earth & Ecosystem Sciences, 2019-22. Member of Investigation Panel investigating the C’s grievance

Witness for JP:

SE - Sarah Earle, Professor Modern History Uni of Oxford, Founding member GCRN

Tribunal Tweets - https://twitter.com/tribunaltweets

TT coverage so far - tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/professor-jo-phoenix-v-the-open-university

Prof Jo Phoenix Witness Statement (scroll to bottom of page and download)

https://jophoenix.substack.com/p/phoenix-v-open-university?sd=pf

Thread 1 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4905118-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-2nd-october-whispers-ben-cooper?page=1

Thread 2 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4913946-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-2?page=1

Thread 3 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4917480-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-3

Thread 4 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4918479-prof-jo-phoenix-vs-the-ou-employment-tribunal-thread-4

CW has a speaking manner that sounds as if he's been rehearsing. Maybe he's just very fluent - he doesn't speak with many fillers like ums and ers.

It's a telling example of why people should never write emails of this sort that they're not prepared to stand behind in public.

It's disrespectful and time wasting to continue to assert that CW wanted more redactions. That ship has sailed. For preference, I'd like the email printed in THES and every newspaper with an education or employment section. I doubt I'll be granted that wish.

Not that I am surprised - this is the hole that UCU has fallen down. Not a good look for them.

Yes, the testimony! The email not being redacted enough ...

(Sorry, I'll never keep up. Slow arthritic fingers this morning.)

CW: All signatories to the letter deserve TU rep but personally I couldn't do it. Worried would be accused of having given bad advice on basis of my views if i helped JP. My conscientious objection round this issue meant I couldn't give support.

Oh, the film of CW. Was someone behind the camera holding up a sign telling him to smile? Weird the way it came and went.

Is it quite the treat, despite the content, after previous speakers?

Conscientious objection? OMG

I know I’ve said this before on Mn but in a work context don’t put it in writing unless you are happy to explain it at ET. Never send an email or text when angry.

Look at the Covid enquiry how the WhatsApp messages come over

CW: there are 3 or 4 reps. I was under the impression that one of them was sympathetic to GC views.

Lecturers often train themselves out of using ums and ahs in speech, using pauses instead - tends to be less embarrassing when you watch the video of your lecture afterwards. I'm guessing that's what CW has done, and he's using lecturer-speak now.

Yep, conscientious objections. Because this is a war.

I wondered about that. CW does seem to be very invested in gender ideology, to the extent that it's emotional not rational. Not a good trait in an academic.

There were 3 or 4 union reps, 1 was sympathetic to GC views.

Possibly.

CW to Dr drake email exchange 1 tw and 1 nb in my department all very upset about JP signing the letter.

Is anybody else wondering whether there might be an undercover TERF high up in OU HR/legal who selected all the witnesses?

Do you think the senior bods are listening/getting updates?

I wondered about that.

No I don't think he is trans, based on how he frames his trans advocacy.

BC: we see again visceral adverse reaction to JP researching t prisoners.

BC: exchange with Dr Drake. DD says it's problematic, scary, that OU people sign letter when we have t /nb in my dept. Embarrassing.

BC: implies you share same views as DD

CW; doesn't discuss GC beliefs but the expression

CW: expression of beliefs in Sunday Times letter was problematic

CW - spoke about the issues with Dr Drake in a union context

Expression of GC views in Times letter was problematic. Not all expressions are problematic. Fails to give any examples.

Cw- It was a WA group for union members to discuss the expression of these beliefs. I can't remember if Dr Drake was in any conversations in 2021.

CW: it was a whatsapp group to talk c problem of expression of GC beliefs

BC: did DD join this wa group

CW: she wasn't in 2021 conversations. Otherwise I can't remember.

BC: how can you be sure she wasn't in 2021 conversations then?

Some one is being twisty with details of the WhatsApp group membership.

Trying to plead mixture of required secrecy because of Union membership and bad memory.