How do we find a middle ground?

[Namechange2468109]

How do we find a place where it’s ok to say we believe their are transsexual people (in my lifetime it’s always been around and as far as I am aware not particularly fought against/prevented people accessing services/given equal rights) generally these people (who I totally support and would advocate for) appeared to me to want to go under the radar and just live their lives. I’d have NO issues sharing a bathroom with these people.

What shifted? Why is it now a case that we are bullied into accepting a man (with a beard who in every way looks and acts like a man) as a woman?

I thought in the 90s we accepted that what you wear, your hobbies, who you slept with and career choice did not define you. I was never girlie, wore boys jeans but at no point did I think I was a boy or prevented progressing my life.

We now have men that define themselves as women by going backwards in stereotypes, basically the clothes define the man.

The levels of irony baffle me ‘sex doesn’t exist, but if I wear heels I’m a woman’ ‘don’t assume or judge, but if you don’t assume correctly I’ll punch you’ and my favourite ‘I’m a non-binary lesbian’

The ironic thing is (and sorry if this offends anyone) I never coined myself as a feminist. I genuinely thought the previous amazing women had won the war, I earned equally or out earned my male counterparts, I never felt being a women provided me different opportunities to my brother, if anything maybe a tiny advantage.

But now I feel that all that has been pointless and at 41 I’ve become a feminist because I NEED too. Is this not such a rewind in society. I was genuinely a little nervous today at taking a book to the counter (material girls) a bloody (amazing) book, but a book.

How do we rationalise this?

Sorry for the long post but I am genuinely lost at the next steps to take.

Hospitals can't function without nurses.

Women's toilets function better without male people using them.

And have any post op transsexuals?

The GC board is boring. I’m off - too bored. You guys can go back to whatever you do when it’s only yourselves.

Men have attacked women and children in women's toilets, including men who claim to have a transgender identity.

You know, we should all have our very own personal portaloos trailing behind us. That would solve this quagmire of a dilemma.

Who To Let In To The Women’s Loos.

The clue is in the name: Women.
Who are women?
Women is a sex class of the dimorphic human species. The reason behind there being men AND women is we as a species reproduce sexually. It is a marvel, really, and allows for much more variety in our offspring, thus maximising our chances of survival.

Anyway. Sex is determined at conception: the X chromosome in the egg meets a sperm carrying EITHER an x chromosome OR a y chromosome.

XX is female, XY is male …

You know, I’m pretty sure all this has been covered already.

Ok, moving on to how women have been treated up through history. Good lord, I’ll be here all day, but to sum it up etc etc

I think those of us on The Wrong Side of History should stop trying to argue against the Gems of Wisdom being so benignly bestowed upon us by this noble representative of The Right Side of History.

Instead, we should encourage more such Gems, and just applaud gratefully, as we (and lurkers) become increasingly Educated.

Here you go thunder.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3586134-That-Never-Happens?reply=87093629

Frankly, I've never thought that attempting to rile women by talking shit would be a particularly interesting hobby, but you know, you do.

Sorry, pressed send too soon.

Women carry the foetus and is the one person we can be absolutely 100% is the mother. This bothered many men greatly, and various forms of very strict social and sexual control over women ensued.

By the way, have you heard of the poor rural women in India campaigning for single sex toilets?
I’d google that, it is very enlightening.

Anyway, ramble ramble.

So the reasons for having sex segregated toilets are just overwhelming.

And also: I want them to continue to be so.
I am a woman. I don’t want any men in these spaces.
No middle ground - it’s a ridiculous concept in relation to this.

Nice lippy, mate, but use your own bogs ta very much.

Oh.
Goddessofthunder is bored. And has left us.

Oh well.

What a shame! This thread was amusing me on a dull tuesday afternoon.

(Does 'bored' mean 'I just got my arse handed to me on a plate'?)

And have any post op transsexuals?

And have any left-handed curly-haired male chess champions? Perhaps we should let them in too?

No. Because they're men.

Hope this proves something to the OP. Middle ground is simply not possible.

You will get men determined to enter women's spaces against their consent, no matter what the fuck the women say.

The wheedling, the shaming, the blackmail, the threats, the coercion. It's never bloody ending. In fact, it gives a lot of men a bit of a thrill.

The entire concept of women making their own decisions about their own spaces, for their own needs, is alien.

That's not what women are for. Women are support humans. If they're not doing support, then what's the point of them?

Germaine Greer said women have no idea how much men hate them. I remember reading it and thinking crikey, that's a bit harsh.

Now I think she was probably right.

There appear to be far, far too many men who simply don't see women as humans in their own right.

Thunder is just the latest in a truly tediously long list of TRAs who come on here to demonstrate that they don't have the comprehension to see women in any light other than what we can do for them.

That's why it's no man, not even one, in any space where women want sex segregation.

Run out of arguments @GodessOfThunder? Didn't like what you were hearing?

Germaine Greer was right about a hell of a lot of things, @Datun.

The end of this video is my favourite part.

Interviewer: Can a male person ever be a woman?
GG: No.
Interviewer: Do you understand how some people might feel insulted by that?
GG: I don't care. People get insulted all the time. Australians get insulted every day of the week.

We all need to take a leaf out of Germaine's book and practise saying, "I don't care" that people are offended by our views on sex and gender.

Run out of arguments @GodessOfThunder? Didn't like what you were hearing?

To be fair, they did stick around after the “butch lesbian” trope to add a new one to the genre: LUCY LETBY, and I have to salute them for that.

My fave is face calipers.

I almost want it to become a thing. I'd take it over genital inspections any day of the week.

What are the hours?

Do you not have a mother, an aunt, a daughter, a sister?

Given the lack of empathy, I can only assume that Godess was hatched from an egg.

I can't stop laughing at "face calipers".

Damn - is @GodessOfThunder not going to tell me how I can magically tell the sweet, safe, lovely trans women from the predatory ones like Yanniv, and from the predatory men who will use self-ID as a mandate to invade women's spaces and assault them?

Spoiler: @GodessOfThunder is most certainly not going to explain this.

Our current single sex news is said to have been headlined in Spain

Bloody brilliant. Keep going

I think the answer is something about seeing into peoples souls .

Huh?

Here, a few posts down. Changes here are getting news o/s

It made the news in Spain!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4911282-trans-women-to-be-banned-from-female-hospital-wards?reply=129652244