How do we find a middle ground?

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How do we find a place where it’s ok to say we believe their are transsexual people (in my lifetime it’s always been around and as far as I am aware not particularly fought against/prevented people accessing services/given equal rights) generally these people (who I totally support and would advocate for) appeared to me to want to go under the radar and just live their lives. I’d have NO issues sharing a bathroom with these people.

What shifted? Why is it now a case that we are bullied into accepting a man (with a beard who in every way looks and acts like a man) as a woman?

I thought in the 90s we accepted that what you wear, your hobbies, who you slept with and career choice did not define you. I was never girlie, wore boys jeans but at no point did I think I was a boy or prevented progressing my life.

We now have men that define themselves as women by going backwards in stereotypes, basically the clothes define the man.

The levels of irony baffle me ‘sex doesn’t exist, but if I wear heels I’m a woman’ ‘don’t assume or judge, but if you don’t assume correctly I’ll punch you’ and my favourite ‘I’m a non-binary lesbian’

The ironic thing is (and sorry if this offends anyone) I never coined myself as a feminist. I genuinely thought the previous amazing women had won the war, I earned equally or out earned my male counterparts, I never felt being a women provided me different opportunities to my brother, if anything maybe a tiny advantage.

But now I feel that all that has been pointless and at 41 I’ve become a feminist because I NEED too. Is this not such a rewind in society. I was genuinely a little nervous today at taking a book to the counter (material girls) a bloody (amazing) book, but a book.

How do we rationalise this?

Sorry for the long post but I am genuinely lost at the next steps to take.

She’s in prison for the rest of her life.

It used to be Myra Hindley and Rose West.

Rather ironic really, given those are the only two female killers they could think of in, what is it 70 years?

Because they’ll do it anyway, dont cha know.

Just let em all in, is what Goddessofthunder is saying.

But, you know, I don’t want to. I don’t want any men into women’s spaces. It doesn’t matter how Nice their hair is, or how much cosmetic surgery they have had.
No, the answer is simply no.

Well, if we have to start with genital inspections in every public lavatory I think it will be easier with an iris-dna scan. Then what has been chopped or not becomes inconsequential.
However, why not simply do what has been suggested upthread?

If you were born with a Willy you use the men’s or the wonderful Third neutral option that I am waiting for TRA’s to campaign for.

Lol, you won't.

She's perfectly entitled to be there

Two is two too many! Women out of women’s toilets for the safety of all women NOW. WE demand it!

Abso-bloody-lutely spot on, @Datun!!

You’re sounding like India Willoughby now, Goddess. Do you really want that?

Crikey, if you're going to keep murdering, raping, predatory men out of the men's, too, you really will have a problem on your hands.

Post op 'transexuals' are still male. I know of one and he's well over 6ft and broadly built. He spends his time hanging out with gay men who encourage him in his belief he's actually female. Lots of 'post op' transexuals are motivated by AGP - which you'd know if you's spoken with any trans widows or anyone who has any insight into that condition.

The 'you mustn't say 'we' unless you are an official representative of everyone ' argument was much used by a particular teed in my old stamping ground - quite nostalgic to see it again.

So to summarise so far:

Men must have access to spaces that women want to reserve for women.

Men must also have access to those women.

Men must laugh at women who object to this (side order of talking about genitals and lesbians to women).

Men cannot be distinguished from women except by use of calipers anyway.

I know I've missed one . . .

Men cannot be distinguished from women except by use of calipers anyway.

That's made me laugh out loud.

Look men commit 99% of sex crimes regardless of how they identify. That is reason enough to keep them out of places where women are vulnerable. Toilets are segregated by SEX. For the safety of women and girls. The End.

@GodessOfThunder this post makes sense

Are you worried about no access to female spaces?

I know I've missed one . .

Lucy Letby. You missed Lucy Letby, @DeanElderberry . We ALL missed Lucy Letby off our bingo cards of ludicrosity.

I think you should pause before typing. It is not a game.

You've been watching Mary Poppins haven't you?

'Votes for women' and all that......how 1920's

@GodessOfThunder

It is a long time since I last read such a wide-ranging and desperate dose of whataboutery but if that is all you have then that is all you can use.

Let's be clear. We can all tell men from women. I can. You can. Small children can. Even fucking dogs can. Stop pretending that we can't.

The provision of single sex toilets is a proportionate means of achieving the reasonable outcome of providing safety, dignity and privacy for each sex. Not just safety. Your neutered transexual guy may not be a threat (but how would I know?) but he takes away my dignity and privacy just as much as a bearded guy in jeans and a tee shirt.

I isn't right. How can it be right?

It not I

Your dignity must be a very fragile thing indeed if it’s threatened by a natal man with no penis which you can’t see cos they are in a cubicle.

Since when was a penis necessary for someone to commit violent crime? Males commit most violent crimes as well as all rapes.

There should be no men in women's lavatories, changing rooms, hospital wards, prison wings.

You are aware that Myra Hindley and Rose West didn't murder any women or children in the ladies' toilets at John Lewis, yes?

And something to do with the 1970s

Women nurses commit most of the crimes against patients among nurses in hospitals. No women nurses in hospitals!

Do you purposefully shield yourself from the many hundreds of accounts of males violating female boundaries and spaces purely for the purpose of validation? Penis or no penis.In fact there is a whole sub culture of men who have 'a thing' about castration - and 'eunuch' was even proposed as a new gender identity just last year.

Do you not have a mother, an aunt, a daughter, a sister?

If we can't see their lack of penis because they are in a cubicle then what difference does it make whether they have a penis or not?