How do we find a middle ground?

[Namechange2468109]

How do we find a place where it’s ok to say we believe their are transsexual people (in my lifetime it’s always been around and as far as I am aware not particularly fought against/prevented people accessing services/given equal rights) generally these people (who I totally support and would advocate for) appeared to me to want to go under the radar and just live their lives. I’d have NO issues sharing a bathroom with these people.

What shifted? Why is it now a case that we are bullied into accepting a man (with a beard who in every way looks and acts like a man) as a woman?

I thought in the 90s we accepted that what you wear, your hobbies, who you slept with and career choice did not define you. I was never girlie, wore boys jeans but at no point did I think I was a boy or prevented progressing my life.

We now have men that define themselves as women by going backwards in stereotypes, basically the clothes define the man.

The levels of irony baffle me ‘sex doesn’t exist, but if I wear heels I’m a woman’ ‘don’t assume or judge, but if you don’t assume correctly I’ll punch you’ and my favourite ‘I’m a non-binary lesbian’

The ironic thing is (and sorry if this offends anyone) I never coined myself as a feminist. I genuinely thought the previous amazing women had won the war, I earned equally or out earned my male counterparts, I never felt being a women provided me different opportunities to my brother, if anything maybe a tiny advantage.

But now I feel that all that has been pointless and at 41 I’ve become a feminist because I NEED too. Is this not such a rewind in society. I was genuinely a little nervous today at taking a book to the counter (material girls) a bloody (amazing) book, but a book.

How do we rationalise this?

Sorry for the long post but I am genuinely lost at the next steps to take.

Transwomen’s dignity is so fragile that they have conniptions if someone ‘deadnames’ or even ‘misgenders’ them.

The 'deadnames' thing is just proof they aren't women. We all grow up with the concept that as adults we may be called by a different name than the one we grew up with, and the awareness that most of our older women friends and family members have changed their names at least once during their lives. We also know they usually rather like being reminded of their 'birth names' and the connections and family links that go with them.

Of course it's different with an ideology that wants to eradicate old family and social networks.

Before this thread ends I want to say a huge thank you to the majority of posters providing links and reasoned arguments against...certain ridiculous whatabouteries (calipers being my "favourite" wtf, still can't get it out of my head).

Especially to @Helleofabore, I'm in awe

I particularly chuckled at thunder's remark that helle was 'in a muddle'.

🤣

As always, for the lurkers

Seriously, I suggest regular readers and posters visit the thread I posted and read forward even a little bit.

You really will notice how posters, once you realise they are male, post about dismissing consent issues, safeguarding and fetishes and a slew of things mentioned on this thread.

Just to repeat, boringly, once you see it, it will all become clear just how so similar the tactics have been utilised here are. It is like deja vu sometimes on these threads...

Agreed. How can we arrange a meet up of likeminds at an old fashioned curry house on the Strand 😀

Thanks Pixie and Datun.

And calipers were an eye opener for sure!

So what core messages about the possibility of a middle way did you successfully convey?

Safeguarding is boring and not sparkly and cool on social media. It doesn't get you likes and it's not good for social acceptance. It's likely to earn you a mile of abuse or whatabboutery.

Night all

Yes Red it must be very hard to understand safeguarding if you don't understand at least something about what fetishes are out there and what the sex of the human's are who are heavily involved with them. It is always, always enlightening to see who says what when discussing fetishes. And who tries to shame women for connecting them to the need for single sex spaces....

Just as it is really interesting to see what posters post things about the age groups of the women who are campaigning for single sex spaces, and make it clear that they are male people who have no understanding about female lived experiences, feminism and safeguarding. And who seems to crow about their lack of knowledge and understanding. As we so often say, it becomes repetitive. But sometimes it pays to also recognise that leopards don't change their spots....

Oh... and if you don't understand boundaries. Or recognise them or respect them.

And that you declare breezily about how many girls and women can be harmed to allow male people to have their demands met.

Early night or past your bedtime?

Safeguarding and boundaries offend people who have no use of them and want to ride rough shot over them.

Anyone who says the 'dont get it' and then lay into women defending single sex spaces is actively telling you they fall into one group or the other group.

This has been well demonstrated by individuals who don't have an issue with women being victims of sexual offences to preserve the feelings of men.

“This has been well demonstrated by individuals who don't have an issue with women being victims of sexual offences to preserve the feelings of men.”

I am not sure that I can ever not see that poster without remembering that. I suspect I know which group that poster falls into. I doubt anyone is remaining confused after seeing that.

This has been a useful thread

Yes, Operation: Let Them Speak never fails.

Goodness. Switching between that thread and this was like trapping myself in a repeating time loop!

Groundhog Day: the MN edition.

Yes neighbourhood. I knew you would like to refresh your memory. Pretty clear once you see it, isn’t it? That feeling of deja vu!

Like you have seen it before and now you are seeing it again.

Remarkable!

When a male person tells you who they are, we should listen!

Thank you OP for the thread, I do hope you and others decided for yourselves if there is a middle ground to be had and where that might be.

Best of luck.

This is the thread where a poster declared:

100+ GIRLS AND WOMEN ARE ACCEPTABLE COLLATERAL TO BE SEXUALLY HARMED EACH YEAR UNTIL SOCIETY HAS ESTABLISHED A TREND SO ALL MALES CAN THEN BE BANNED FROM FEMALE SINGLE SEX SPACES !! 100+ GIRLS AND WOMEN PER YEAR!!

You heard it here.