French gynaecologist ignites row over refusal to treat trans woman

[Igneococcus]

I don't really understand why threads about this get zapped but here is a Times article about the French gynaecologist:
:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7ed8884c-53cc-11ee-abb5-ce4135341f1b?shareToken=e5a7e3396938f2b02d7226ec4d195cd7

Even the most delusional transgender person wouldn’t expect a gynaecologist to treat them if they were ‘intact’ so the person in question probably had a ‘cul de sac’ 🫢

@Pixiedust1234 would it make a difference? They still wouldn't have the necessary anatomy. No need for a smear test, hysteroscopy ect.

Absolutely ludicrous.

Several TWs have said on Twitter over the years that they are treated by gynaecologists. It’d be useful to know who those gynaes are because I wouldn’t want to be treated by them on the basis that they seemingly don’t understand what their job entails.

Beam me up Scottie.

Agree @BaronessBomburst

An inflated ego. Ouch! That’s sore , and can trigger a lot of side effects, too.

Anglophones are fortunate to be able to use the word 'female' when talking about women and girls. You don't politely use 'femelle' when talking about humans in France. Unfortunately for the doctor his use of 'real women' (i.e. females) was also deemed to be offensive by SOS Homophobie who are looking to bring an official complaint.

It all boils down to the power that GR laws give to trans. That needs to be revisited now.

Yes there are specialists who know all about neovaginas: the surgeon who did the surgery. If a male with a neovagina is not seeing their specialist who did the surgery but instead seeking out someone who is not a specialist in neovaginas but is instead someone who focuses on women’s health, they’ve either a) fallen out with their original specialist who did the surgery or b) seeking out a women’s health specialist for other reasons, because expertise in neovaginas ain’t it.

No it shouldn't. But it could go a little way to understanding the mindset. So many are told, once they have surgery and cross hormones that they are magically the other sex. I'm wondering if they have been let down by affirming doctors previously or whether they were the usual type of tw.

SsEspace Santé Trans, a transgender health group, said in a statement: “Gynaecologists should treat trans women even if they have not had genital reassignment surgery or hormonal treatment.”

okay

Voila , chérie, ton petit gâteau. Mais c’est tout pour cet après-midi, tu est gâtée déjà.

Are the quotes we are being deleted for reported in the press? How can they justify that? Special censorship that only applies to Mumsnet? Get a grip.

I live in France.

It's not a constant topic of discussion here the way it is in the UK.

I think the official government position is that TWAW, but most French people have complete contempt for the government anyway, regardless of who is in power.

As far as I am aware there are no trans women in women's prisons in France, and there are fewer single sex spaces in public places anyway, for example, in municipal sports facilities the changing areas tend to be mixed sex with cubicles, so there are fewer places where it actually makes a difference. At our local pool it's all individual cubicles and there is one communal mixed sex shower area where no one takes their swimsuits off, plus a couple of individual shower cubicles. I suspect the whole public sports set-up is simply not inclusive of, e.g. Muslim women, but then France isn't very inclusive of those people to begin with.

I don't know any French people who believe TWAW.

And by “other reasons” I mean validation. A male who identifies as trans seeking care from a women’s health care specialist instead of a specialist in the specific surgery, a urologist or an experienced endocrinologist who knows how much damage is done by cross sex hormones is doing it purely for validation, and no one and no deletion will stop me from believing this. Doctors should not treat patients outside their scope of practice just to appease their feelings.

This exactly

Spot on.

The French don't use the words male and female when talking about humans, only animals, so men and women are all they have.

The word cisgenre exists but I have literally never heard anyone use it.

So "vraies femmes" is the only way to really be sure you are getting your point across.

Exactly, if this doctor would be happy to treat a pregnant lesbian or a pregnant trans man then he is neither homophobic nor transphobic and to label him as such is libellous.

To be fair, rather than mental illness, it could just be massive ignorance about the fact that this suggestion either means drs special for twice as long or are half as experienced given the complete difference of male and female reproductive systems. You see this kind of ignorance when people think it's newsworthy that a TM (aka female) who is having unprotected PIV sex gets pregnant.

But this is what a good doctor does surely. If she is working with an (actual) woman who has an issue that another doctor specialises in she will refer her on.

Parfait.

The vet will stick a thermometer up your arse, neuter you, trim your claws then give you a plate of whiskas. Job done 😉

Hope you've got pet insurance as you'll also get a big bill.

I was about to post on the other thread when it got deleted.
I feel like this person deliberately went to the gynaecologist looking for trouble. They know full well that the gynaecologist is not in a position to treat the cavity. They would have been told that when they had the surgery in the first place.
What exactly did they think the gynaecologist could do for them? Absolutely fuck all, that's what. If there was an issue with the cavity then they should have been back to the department who did the original surgery. There is nothing else in their body which needs to be treated by a gynaecologist.

"Espace Santé Trans, a transgender health group, said in a statement: “Gynaecologists should treat trans women even if they have not had genital reassignment surgery or hormonal treatment.”
This quote from the article is ludicrous. A gynaecologist is not trained to treat male genitalia. Just as a dentist is not trained to treat male genitalia or the female reproductive system. In the same way as a heart surgeon is not trained to remove cataracts.

In the article which was linked to the original thread I noticed that there was a short paragraph saying that (I think) there are 3030 people in France diagnosed with gender dysphoria, as recorded by the health insurance company, a ten-fold increase compared to 2013.
3030 in the whole of France!
It surprised me. The way some people go on, you'd think at least half the population were trans....

Perhaps a urologist can just identify as a gynaecologist for the duration of the TW's appointment? Does that meet the validation need?

Exactly!