French gynaecologist ignites row over refusal to treat trans woman

[Igneococcus]

I don't really understand why threads about this get zapped but here is a Times article about the French gynaecologist:
:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7ed8884c-53cc-11ee-abb5-ce4135341f1b?shareToken=e5a7e3396938f2b02d7226ec4d195cd7

In some other countries (US and Canada, presumably France) GPs do far less, and general gynae care is done by gynaecologists (just as basic paeds care is done by paediatricians). There are obviously many more gynae and paeds doctors, and far fewer GPs.

When we lived in Canada I had my smears done by a gynaecologist and my son had his MMR vaccine given by a paediatrician. Ludicrous waste of money, when both could easily have been done by a practice nurse as in the UK, but that’s the system.

This thread has prompted me to have a google to understand if there would be any reason as to why a trans women would need to see a gynaecologist, so that I could have an informed opinion (can't find that there is a reason- totally understand why the French doctor refused to treat)

However, what then came up is this from ModiBodi- what the actual? At the top of the arrival they describe periods at a bleed from the uterus but then proceed to say that TW feeling anxious/mood swings etc are "their" periods. First time I've actually been swayed not to buy from a company.

www.modibodi.co.uk/blogs/womens/transwomen-period#:~:text=Many%20trans%20women%20have%20periods,the%20form%20of%20feminising%20hormones.

So what is a gynaecologist supposed to do with an intact man who thinks he is a woman? He has nothing a gynaecologist can either examine or investigate. Are trans groups insane or stupid? Oh, tautology.

The gynaecologist said he could only treat real women, i.e. biological women. That, after all, is what he is trained for. What's he going to do with a penis and balls, ffs? Serve the transwoman right if he'd been offered a 'cervical smear' - ouch! Espace Santé Trans are weird.

My husband had a UTI, from me 😞 when it didn't clear up nicely, they did a blood test to check his prostate. Didn't do that for me. Our biology is essentially different, despite some similarities.

Maybe I will identify as a cat and go to the vet for my sterilisation. Way cheaper and I can get in next Tuesday.

Thrush is something we all suffer from. Men. Women. Children.

re BV.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17331294/

But there is no indication that the patient in question actually had a problem requiring medical attention.

If this person has had a vaginoplasty and was experiencing a medical problem, they should contact the hospital department responsible for their ongoing care. (There will be one. Surgeons don't perform complex surgeries such as this with high complication rates and then just release you into the wild.)

It is not even clear from the article whether this person has had a vaginoplasty or whether they are actually just a bog standard male bodied person with male genitalia.

Reading between the lines it sounds very much as though this person just made an appointment to see a gynaecologist because that's what women do once a year.

But the gynaecologist doesn't treat male patients, hadn't consented to seeing a penis, and should in no way be obliged to pretend that this person wasn't wasting his time or pander to their feelings.

If the patient was genuine, then once the doctor had sent a message via the receptionist offering to direct them to a more appropriate doctor, they would have taken that information, thanked the receptionist and left quietly, probably feeling deeply embarrassed about the whole thing. That would be the normal reaction of someone who only has a very vague understanding of what a gynaecologist does and why women go to see one once a year, and made an innocent mistake.

But the scene that ensued in the doctor's waiting area, plus the subsequent Google review and the involvement of various trans lobby groups calling this poor doctor homophobic and transphobic is really all the evidence we need that this isn't about trans people being unable to access appropriate healthcare, it's about trans activists deliberately stirring up trouble. They really need to get some sort of hobby instead.

I'm using that 😛

For those people banging on that TW get thrush/bv and that means they're women, when on EARTH was the last time you went to a gynaecologist for very basic infections that any pharmacy can cure over the counter? I mean it needs a GP at most, and a Tesco thereafter.

I'm assuming you read my post literally about this specific case, as it was the post exactly above the one you've quoted and decided to erroneously lecture me about. My second post addressed the wider issue that trans people need specialists. My first post addressed this fetishist.

But ... TW don't have uteruses! Transmen yes, often. TW, no.

As someone said up thread, beam me up, Scottie.

Also…

https://www.euronews.com/2023/09/15/a-cavity-is-not-a-vagina-trans-woman-refused-healthcare-in-france#:~:text=%22I%20only%20treat%20real%20women,west%20of%20the%20country%20recently

What on earth have I just read??!! Do you think they mean women identifying as men?

I've been following this ideology for a while now - and am very used to the absolutely batshit ideas that it's created.

But no matter how hard I try, I still can't bring myself to believe that the 'they should treat trans women even before surgery" is real. As it's so so so insane.

I keep thinking "they must have got trans women mixed up with trans men"?!?

I interpreted your comment to mean that perhaps trans women are going to gynaecologists because they aren't getting the dedicated support they need from elsewhere. (Indeed, I hadn't clocked that you were the same poster who posted the comment immediately above.)

My understanding is that trans people are pretty well provided for by the French healthcare system. I have certainly seen trans people living in France talking on social media about how much more accessible transgender medicine is in France than it is in countries like the UK (which I can well believe). Lots of people in France are able to access non essential healthcare, or the type of healthcare we might consider essential but which is nonetheless difficult or impossible to access on the NHS, and have the cost mostly or completely reimbursed by social security and their health insurance. So yes, I can definitely believe that there are shorter waiting lists, greater choice and easier access to doctors willing to prescribe hormones and recommend surgery. And healthcare in general is pretty gold plated here. All women get free pelvic floor physiotherapy after every birth (whether vaginal or by C-section) for example. There is lots of follow up and lots of paperwork. So I just don't believe that trans people are given hormones or operated on and then just left to get on with it by their doctors. There will be follow up. If this person had had any surgery, they will absolutely already be under the care of a specialist team such as the one you describe above.

The care you describe above is already provided and the absence of it is not the reason why trans women are making appointments with gynaecologists.

Treat what???

I think that if this problem becomes widespread, gynaecologists are going to have to start only giving appointments out for specific reasons, each one related to female body parts.

So on their Doctolib profile there is a drop down list where you select the reason for your appointment (this already exists) and they're going to need to make it really specific, such as:

• cervical smear
• ultrasound of uterus and ovaries
• insertion of intrauterine device
• first pregnancy consultation
• first trimester ultrasound

And so on.

And then make it clear that anyone who attends an appointment for a reason other than the one specified will not be treated and will be charged for the appointment.

Then next time this happens they can say, "This patient booked an appointment under false pretences, in relation to a body part that they do not have. I therefore refused to treat the patient and they were charged for the appointment in accordance with the terms and conditions clearly stated on the appointment booking system."

Indeed.

Although it's quite difficult to wake up when there is so much censorship about the issue.

I can't believe Mumsnet censor people posting about it, either. For fuck's sake. Talk about, well, just being wrong.

Of course, I am consoled by the knowledge that not only is there is some sap spending hours trawling through every single comment that we make, on every single thread, they are also engaging in protracted email discussions with HQ, making it perfectly clear to them exactly what they're targeting and why 🤣

Yes, this is what they will have to do. But men will still claim they are women, but with different biological anatomy, that's all.

It really is quite insane that a man is going to a gynaecologist and the gynaecologist's refusal to treat him is what's controversial.

Still, that's shark's not going to jump itself.

I feel Modibodi, makers of period pants, may have something of a vested interest in persuading the world that every person of every gender needs to purchase their knickers?

I think that if this problem becomes widespread, gynaecologists are going to have to start only giving appointments out for specific reasons, each one related to female body parts.

I get it. But we should just stop bending over backwards for people who'll never stop demanding and demanding and demanding.

@JackieQueen no, it seems very much they are talking about trans women. In fact- may have been more valid to talk about trans men, but the talk is always TW

@Saschka yes, sad, but very true

How can they even type that with a straight face? “Some TW do not have uteruses”

Point me to even ONE that has a uterus! Just one. FFS.

This is weird from that Modibodi page:

Some trans women don’t have uteruses

Some trans women don’t have uteruses? So lots do?

if so, then they are female. Often when women (the old fashioned kind) ask if we can identify as transwomen we are told off for even asking the question. How very strange this all is.