French gynaecologist ignites row over refusal to treat trans woman

[Igneococcus]

I don't really understand why threads about this get zapped but here is a Times article about the French gynaecologist:
:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7ed8884c-53cc-11ee-abb5-ce4135341f1b?shareToken=e5a7e3396938f2b02d7226ec4d195cd7

This. Unfortunately, all the main institutions have well and truly drunk the cool aid

There is a shortage of gynaecologists in France, trans groups say that they should treat even trans people who have no surgery, gynaecologist has said they would treat a 'pregnant man' but isn't qualified to treat a trans woman.

Doctor is totally reasonable. Uproar is beyond ridiculous. And why the hell should women Bev even less appointments available with doctors who actually specialise in their biology because people who don't have that biology insist on muscling in despite it being utterly pointless for all involved (except for the 'validation')

It just beggars belief. At least it should, but sadly no longer does. Ffs.

I never got to read either one of yesterday's threads, just saw the subject titles and I'm baffled why they were gone by the time I got around to reading them.

Hurty feels of deluded men.

We can't 'generalise' about trans women.

Even if the 'generalisation' is that they are a MONSIEUR and not a MADAME.

[I'm hooked on the capitals as I live in France and often get emails that start MADAME in caps as that's the way they do things here. None of your fancy schmancy pleasantries here. Made me laugh. Still making me laugh. I'm always going to be laughing at the doctor's straight faced response].

Absolutely. Just beggars belief why anybody at all takes these sort of demands with any sort of seriousness. I mean, just engage brain, ffs.

Will this madness ever end? When it comes to medicine the trans argument does not work because we are different. Biologically different forever.

So a man identifies as a women and therefore needs to see an gynaecologist. What is the difference with someone identifying as having cancer and insisting on seeing an oncologist? Or someone identifying as someone with ADHD and insisting on a Rx of Adderall and an ECHP?

C'est tout merde.

This.

As soon as one concession is made the dissatisfaction begins again. The process of subjugation is exactly that. An ongoing process, never ending and therefore demands just continue to escalate. There is no upper limit.

Take this for example.

Espace Santé Trans, a transgender health group, said in a statement: “Gynaecologists should treat trans women even if they have not had genital reassignment surgery or hormonal treatment.”

Treat them for what is the obvious question. But it doesn't matter. Visiting a gynaecologist is what women do and therefore it's what has to happen.

If that becomes commonplace, it will be something else to show power. That they need to get priority over women for example. Be first in the queue.

That's almost no end to the creative ways you can subjugate women under this ideology.

Men dominating women, globally, hasn't stopped male supremacism. This is just another stand of it.

Medical professionals are being forced to collude with mentally ill/deluded (or worse) people.

What did the transwoman want the doctor to do? If he's not qualified to treat surgically altered men it would be dangerous if he pretended he knew what he was doing.

Missed the other thread but don’t understand why this topic would be worthy of deletion in a democratic society. Psychiatric help for this man would be a more helpful intervention.

The doctor is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't.

Any hcp in the UK (and why would France be different?) has a duty to refer anyone with a condition that is outwith their knowlege/skills to someone who can deal with it. Now it seems they may be obliged to pretend they can deal with stuff they have no knowledge of. At least, if trans activists get their way this will happen.

Who'd work in healthcare?

When Jessica Yaniv took a beautician to court for not waxing his penis, the court found in her favour, but only because she wasn't qualified. Not because he was forcing her to comply with her own sexual assault.

The gynaecologist (male or female) shouldn't have to rely on their lack of expertise for not wanting to be forced to examine a man's genitalia.

Rather more expensive to see a vet though, but you could try PDSA.

It seems entirely fair that a Gynae says s/he is not qualified to treat a trans woman. The patient doesn't have the physical plumbing nor the endocrine system the dr has been trained to maintain or treat.

The dr may have been clumsy in their public response, whilst under attack, but it seems perfectly justified to be honest for the dr to say that they aren't qualified but that they are happy to refer the patient to an appropriately qualified dr.

The world has gone mad if that is transphobic. It is not the same as a baker refusing to bake a cake for a homosexual couple because of the baker's beliefs.

This is about what the HCP is qualified to do and who it is appropriate for them to treat, especially given the intimate and sensitive issues they would need to deal with.

I expect this is happening time and time again because of a lack of appropriate after care and rest of life care for trans patients (or perhaps there are loads of appropriately qualified HCPs out there who get on with their work quietly so we don't hear about it?). So there will be plenty of gynaes with similar experience, especially in countries where patients do not need a referral from a GP to see a specialist and can book themselves directly.

We need to have grown up discussions on the topic. We don't need censoring or everyone shouting over everyone else. What is needed. Who needs it. What does that population want. How does it get provided in the best way possible.

We also need proper education so everyone understands the differences and similarities between male and female bodies and the impact of those chromosomes on the physiology, the endocrine systems, the bones and muscles and organs. Without that education we have no solid basis to build common understanding on.

If pre op the specialist needed would be a urologist and if post op either them or a plastic surgeon. Both of which treat women. It's like the "unisex toilets will not do, must be the ladies'" all over again.

What exactly would the trans woman expect the doctor to do? Isnt it all just a performance?

😂

Yeah - I'm going to complain to the police because the reptile vet won't see my cat. 🙄🙄🙄

And I'm going to complain to the police because the dentist won't test my eyes.

Then I'll complain to the police because the optician won't take my blood pressure.

Then because the chemist won't give me physiotherapy.

I wonder what would happen to all these complaints 🧐

Interpretive dance maybe or emoji form💃 🚹 🍆🌈✂❎❓❗🆘🆔🇫🇷 👱🕵🤷👯🏃👀👎

A deliberately created cavity wound is not anything to do with gynaecology. That person has been so severely brainwashed they are in desperate need of psychological intervention as they believe otherwise, and said beliefs are obviously causing them severe delusional mental distress. The doctor was right not to enable the continuation of a debilitating mental delusion.

Who exactly is paying for these medical appointments?

ETA: I can't get doctor appointment when it's entirely necessary. It's an incredible waste of resources.

If anyone has read the French articles does it say anywhere that the person in question has had any surgery below (ie a neo vagina) or were they still "intact"?

Imagine if he'd agree to treat her.

Yes, your ovaries look to be in tip top condition. The endometriosis hasn't reached them yet. But I can see the tissue is outside of your womb, so how about we book you in for an ablation.

Then, next week, that patient comes along, and they pretend to perform the ablation.

I mean, what did they expect to happen?