French gynaecologist ignites row over refusal to treat trans woman

[Igneococcus]

I don't really understand why threads about this get zapped but here is a Times article about the French gynaecologist:
:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7ed8884c-53cc-11ee-abb5-ce4135341f1b?shareToken=e5a7e3396938f2b02d7226ec4d195cd7

This.

This silliness has to stop. Every boundary is a target, and it leads to absolute batshit like 'some TW do not have uteruses' - ffs, NOT ONE DOES. NONE. NOT HAVING ONE IS PART OF THE SOLE QUALIFYING CHARACTERISTIC TO BE A TW.

Women's health care should not revolve primarily around not upsetting male people who cannot handle reality. Male health care needs to start providing better psychological support services.

I'm glad others find the ModiBodi page just as mind blowing as I do. The world has gone crazy.

Obviously I don't know if the patient in question had had surgery but I imagine this was all done just to goad the doctor into saying something 'offensive' so they could be upset. I can't see why if you'd had surgery you wouldn't see your specialist for ongoing issues, and if you hadn't then you don't need to see a gynaecologist. You literally can't treat what they don't have. Like a woman can't demand a prostate exam, it's like literally not physically possible.

I think this indicates ModiBodi are all about the sales. What a load of rubbish
If you need to wear period pants for periods you don't have to feel affirmed you are a women....are you really a women 🤨

I listened to this doctor being interviewed on Sud Radio. He sounded so reasonable. He treats 40 women a day and has done so for 30 years. He is very sympathetic towards trans people. He explained how he simply isn't trained to deal with a transwoman. He apologised for using the vraie femme comment and has every sympathy.

He also explained how the situation went down. As far as I could gather the transwoman didn't even get past his secretary, and the situation got a bit heated there. The person then left a negative review on Google. He said he couldn't accept that his years of experience and reputation were being judged on a discussion with the secretary. Like judging an Airbnb by the wallpaper! He intends to defend himself in the courts. Sounds like a very kind, reasonable man - who will take no shit.

aside: I noticed he talked about "la personne"/"elle", which shows how the pronoun question doesn't come up in French. You can call anyone a "personne", male or female, and still continue the sentence using elle.

The only TW who has ever had a uterus was Lili Elbe who died in 1935 following complications from the utertine transplant surgery.

Yes. But we need people in positions of authority to do this. Governments, courts, regulatory bodies.

They need to clearly speak out and say, "Yes, trans rights are human rights. That means you have the right to be treated with as much respect and dignity as anyone else, and it means you have the right to access the specific healthcare that you need, like everyone else. It does not give you the right to trample over the rights of other groups, or harass people. Stop being aggressive towards women. Stop policing people's language. Stop harassing doctors. Stop accusing people who don't agree with you of transphobia and homophobia. Stop trying to cancel people and ruin their careers. You are making things worse for trans people, and worse for gay people. Stop."

Time people started bending over backwards for WOMEN. Ya might say...

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/09/16/general-medical-council-removed-mothers-maternity-policy/

General Medical Council removes the word 'mother' from maternity document
‘Women’ references also stripped from internal policy on menopause

Treat them for what is the obvious question. But it doesn't matter. Visiting a gynaecologist is what women do and therefore it's what has to happen.

I did see something somewhere, I think possibly guidance from NHS Federation or possibly a hospital transcare policy about trans women/men being treated by HCPs of the same gender.

Now we know there are enough issues re WOMEN wanting SAME SEX care - not always practical depending on situation / availability of correctly qualified staff of the relevant sex.

But trans people requesting same gender care opens a completely new can of worms.
Is there any evidence that trans men (women) wish to be treated by men? (Who identify as men)
And if trans women request female HCPs then female gynaecologists could find themselves having perform intimate investigations of male anatomy/surgically altered male anatomy.

Your cycle? What cycle?

Beyond ridiculous, beyond parody.

Anyone supporting a gynecologist seeing a transwoman is saying that transwoman don't need/deserve doctors that actually know about them and how to treat them.

Sounds like actual transphobia to me.

😂Comment of the year

Are they going to find someone agender to treat me? There are allegedly around 100 genders. How are they going to ensure that we match people of the same gender for healthcare when there are that many?

I really don't think they have got mixed up.

I've encountered this before.

As far as I could tell, the reasoning goes like this: "transwomen are women and have always been women, therefore gynaecologists should always have been trained to treat male bodyparts, because some women have them. Any gynaecologist who hasn't been trained should educate themselves so they can treat all their patients adequately."

What Pothole said.

Here are two sex-education posters that may be illuminating.

And yet again the TMs appear to be overlooked.

If we follow the ‘logic’ (I use the word loosely) of the first poster, then the second poster should feature a vulva.

Unless that’s what the reddish coloured blob on the bottom left is (the definition isn’t great)?

Either way, if I owned the penis on the very far right I’d probably be booking in at the clap clinic to check on my inflamed scrotum.

I read an article a day or so ago, and I can't find it now, apparently some of the trans don't want to refer to part of female anatomy as a vagina. We are supposed to call it a front hole in order for us to standardize anatomy. Some biological humans have a front hole and some don't.

In the US a young woman 21, is suing her doctors (medical clinic) for removing her breasts (gender affirming care) when she was 16. She alleges she was manipulated and kept from outside input. She says she had many mental health issues.

This happened in the hospital I gave birth to my children.

....OK then.

My prediction, someone will start pushing for gynecologist to be removed from the field of medicine and instead change the speciality to 'reproductive doctors' with a focus on 'female' penises and the male anatomy

I think the far right is supposed to show ginger hair, rather than inflammation.

Bottom left is, in my opinion, the vulva of a TM, but positioned just-so, for plausible deniability. I suspect the group designing these posters felt less equipped to deal with male hostility than they did female hostility; it's harder to shame questioning men into submission.

What fresh hell is this? 2 + 2 = 5

I think the text makes it clear: 'women's genitals' on one poster, 'penises' on the other. I also noticed that whereas 'gals' need to be informed about sexual health, guys only need to know about sex 🤔😤

Beautifully put.

Why the discrepancy? Why not vulval and penises or men's genital ls and women's genitals? Why show testicle when you're allegedly showing penises? Also if you put a dick in women's genitals then you're using the word woman to mean an identity. Like most women, I don't have a woman identity so do I have no genitals? Am I like barbie?