French gynaecologist ignites row over refusal to treat trans woman

[Igneococcus]

I don't really understand why threads about this get zapped but here is a Times article about the French gynaecologist:
:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/7ed8884c-53cc-11ee-abb5-ce4135341f1b?shareToken=e5a7e3396938f2b02d7226ec4d195cd7

Many French gynaecologists agree with Acharian. “If a trans person comes to me for gynaecological care, I will also say I’m not qualified,” said Dr Philippe Deruelle, secretary-general of the National College of Gynaecologists and Obstetricians. “Treating trans people requires special training. On the other hand, I would be happy to treat a pregnant man.”

So in this insane world should gynaecologists refuse to treat trans men. Funny how transphobia is alleged by transwomen with no care or solidarity with transmen.

I feel like this person deliberately went to the gynaecologist looking for trouble.

Yes.

My friend is a trans woman and gets BV and thrush the same as the rest of us. Can walk into a non-specialist doctors office in the UK and get treated for BV/thrush just the same. Not sure what the French doctors issue was if that's the case here and it can be treated the same way as any other woman. Sadly I think there is an agenda from both sides to spark up me vs them arguments

I agree, it’s mental illness.
I’m not sure why we have got into a situation where we have to embrace it as a reality because they are a big bullying group, who know how to organise themselves and bully people. When in reality, people are ill and should be better helped .

I know the French take exception with anyone messing with the language, but maybe the Académie Française could be persuaded to introduce 'le femme' alongside 'la femme'?

It's not the same as women though is it? men get thrush and bacterial infections too. TW have no anatomy in common with women, so it can't be the same any more than a man getting thrush in his penis is the same.

At least in France the health system isn’t in the meltdown we have in the UK. So an entitled idiot demanding inappropriate treatment from someone not specialised in the area in which the patient really needs consultant expertise, isn’t blocking access to those who really need gynaecology services in an overstretched system.

That’s the only silver lining I can see.

I have never in my life seen a gynae for thrush - generalist can deal with it. I haven't had BV but I assume it's also a GP issue. My understanding is that a gynae is for more complicated and specialised issues relating to the female reproductive system?

Men can't get BV can they, even with a neovagina?

🤣
That’s about it, in a nutshell. I can’t actually roll my eyes as much as I want to at this madness.

**“He was justified in refusing to treat transgender patients,” she said. “They will never have periods or go through the menopause. There’s a shortage of gynaecologists in France and if they have to treat men who say they’re women it will only make things worse. Trans people need medical care but gynaecologists aren’t the right doctors to provide it.”

Is that a a non-specialist doctors office in the UK and get treated for BV/thrush which identifies as a supermarket? Because that's where a women in the UK would go to get treated for thrush or BV, given we don't just pop in to see a gynecologist and are more likely to meet a talking gnome than get a face to face appointment with a GP in their surgery for thrush/BV.

Is the French system similar to Austria and Germany where you go to a "Frauenarzt" ie. gynaecologist, to deal with any issues with the female reproductive system. These "Frauenärzte" are not hospital doctors but are specialists who have practices similar to a GP - ie. in the local community. (Similarly there are specialist dermatologists, ENT, internal medicine - and you can either book an appointment directly if you know which type of specialist you need or the GP will refer you if they think you need someone more specialized to look at something).

So if it is similar to Austria and Germany, women in these countries go regularly (say every 3 years or so) to their Frauenarzt for check ups or if they notice any unusual symptoms. I'm now wondering if France is the same and this person basically wanted to go and have a regular check up because it's something women do and they are now a woman so therefore they have the right to have these check ups even though it is completely and utterly irrelevant because they do not have the relevant reproductive organs.

I still think they did it on purpose to cause trouble but I'm just interested if the French system is similar to what we have here in Austria.

There is a shortage of doctors including GPs and gynaecologists. The problem isn't too bad in the Paris area but in rural areas it can be really difficult to get an appointment. Not sure what the situation is like in Pau with regard to gynaecologists but there would have been women who wanted and needed that appointment slot.

This is more affirmation that medical care because Gynaes just wouldn’t know what to do with a male reproductive system as they’re trained to treat female systems.

Plus it would concern me that significantly more women are gynaecologists than men. And those female gynaecologists could’ve gone into that career purely because it was a women centred and women focused department and expecting to only treat women.

it’s asking much more of the staff than what they’re trained to do or even what they’ve expected to do in the role. Including lie to all their patients.

I’ve been to strictly women only gynaecology depts (separate to fertility and oncology). clear signs on the doors husbands/males can’t go in for the protection of the patients and it’s clearly noted if there is a male member(s) of staff that day and their role eg porter or receptionist or Dr. Some of the women are there for post rape/abuse care and treatments and need that safety to access medical care.

though Im saddened these female only wards are vanishingly rare.

No, males with a neovagina can’t get bacterial vaginosis because they don’t have a vagina. BV is caused by imbalance of different bacteria that colonise vaginas. Given there is no “normal” bacterial to keep IN balance in a neovagina, it can’t be BV.

Instead they can get an infected neovagina, or alternatively an infected cavity in their perineum and as such should see the specialist who created the cavity in their perineum who should have expertise in the common pathogens that frequently cause infection in perineal cavities.

Everyone needs to stop playing along with the idea that this group of patients have “women’s problems.”

Yes, that sounds pretty similar.

In addition to that, in France women have the option to receive their pregnancy care from their chosen gynaecologist who has privileges at one or more local hospitals or birth centres. When one of their patients is giving birth, they get called in.

So it's entirely possible that what was going through his mind was, "FFS, I had to cancel five appointments this morning because I was delivering a baby", or "I don't have time to have a row with this idiot, I'm already way behind schedule and there's a 9 months pregnant woman who has been sitting in the waiting room for two hours already."

The tragic thing is that if the transwoman goes private they could probably find a gaggle of gynaecologists in various countries around the world who would take their money for a pretend "exam" and who would play along with the fetish and give them the validation they crave.

Meanwhile women can't get their cervixes checked for actual cancer because there aren't enough appointments.

In an ideal world with enough doctors to provide medical care for everyone, I think there would be a case to be made for a new specialism of medicine: Transgender specialists, with intimate knowledge of how the hormones affect the opposite sex over time, the effects on reproductive systems, the potential long term effects of various surgeries done in the name of "gender reassignment," and all the other various complexities relating to people who have gone down this pathway, as well as being the same specialists needed to guide people through detransitioning. While people are undergoing medical and surgical interventions in the name of transgenderism, they need appropriate specialists. Gynaecologists are not the right people.

I don't think psychiatrists are the right people for the lifelong ongoing complications and issues, and I think if this was a specialism then there would be more knowledge and understanding of the major pitfalls of reassignment.

I'm apparently supposed to pretend that this was done in earnest as an honest mistake by someone who then suffered indignity of someone not responding sensitively and supportively. To their honest mistake.

However my credulity won't stretch that far. And I'm not that naive, and I have pattern recognition skills.

This. Come on world, wake up.

And while the doctors are busy 'treating' these people just to make them feel extra special, women with genuine health need just get shoved further down the list.

Right...that sounds fair.

Nah, an artificially created faux vagina will never get BV. A surgically created facsimile can get other infections, of course, particularly if the tube is created from a section of colon, but I doubt a gynaecologist is the correct specialist to understand what treatement is needed. I'd hope that TW would have the support of their surgical team, depending on the issue they're having. I do genuinely hope they're not cut adrift once the surgery has been done. That would be a disgrace if so.

Thrush is treated with over the counter medications - ooooooh look how womanly you are, buying Canesten over the counter along with all the other women with itching burning girlie bits!!! There's the validation, right there. Buy your canesten cream and you're a woman.

The gynaecologist wasn't only right to refuse to treat this patient, but surely he had no choice? I'm not familiar with the conditions attached to registration as a doctor in France, but I'd be amazed if there's any profession that doesn't include "working within your scope" in its code of conduct.

I can’t believe some of you are still trying to point out that the emperor is naked. I’ve attached a picture to show you all the lovely CLOTHES he’s wearing.

I really can’t imagine why this folktale comes to mind so frequently when this subject is being discussed. I mean, why WOULD my brain keep returning to a tale about a narcissistic man who forces an entire town to collude with his delusions?