thank you from a TW

[Atarax]

Firstly apologies for posting in a woman's forum. I am transgender (male who lives as female). I wanted to thank the people here who keep me grounded and secure in who I am (not a woman, just a man who is in the wrong body and is fortunate to live in a society that lets me present, act and be accepted as a woman).
Reading threads here on safe spaces gave me the courage to use a men's changing room for the first time since transitioning - I never used woman's ones just accessible/gender neutral rooms. Not surprisingly I did not get attacked, a few curious looks and I kept myself covered in a towel.

You all keep it real and that is so important for those non extreme trans people. Don't stop the dialogue (but do keep respectful). Thanks again, just wanted to post because many (most?) of us get it.

You're welcome.

It's true we are spending so much time holding the fort for women that no one is fighting to make sure you get the respect you deserve from everyone. Especially the gents.

But we see you and we respect your choices as much as you respect our lives.

To be fair, I don't feel right with the "wrong body" statement. I firmly believe no one has the wrong body. You want to get the very best out of the only life you have and this choice is going to do that for you. Go you. We'll support you as best you can.

*as best we can.

The solution is for males to accept all men, however they are dressed, in men's spaces (loos, changing rooms, sports etc). Your post shows this. The likes of Stonewall should be educating males to "be kind" and accepting but instead their vested interests (financial and good old fashioned misogyny) are causing real damage to girls, women and society.

I’ve been in the toilets when a trans women is there and I noticed as did other women. No one said anything but I and others obviously felt uncomfortable and hurried to leave.

It’s disingenuous to say we don’t notice.. so notice. We have always noticed.

Yes, misscocker, when you think about it, how defeatist and victim blaming is the legislative response - transwomen are afraid of how men will react, therefore they must be not only entitled but encouraged to use women's spaces.

Why not 'be kind' to the males?

Let's not forget that while a transwoman (or various males, for that matter) may be at risk from other males they will never be at risk from pregnancy, and are less at risk than females given the well researched and evidence differences in relative size & strength between males and females.

Welcome.

"male who lives as female...live in a society that lets me present, act and be accepted as a woman"

Please could you tell me how you live, act, and present as a woman?

Btw that actually is a genuine question. I'm interested to know if the question can be answered without the use of the word "stereotype".

I'm aware that sounds snarky but I'm genuinely interested and I'm not going to apologise or ask you not to take offence to a straightforward question.

I welcome and embrace trans people, as long as they acknowledge that they cannot change sex and remain biologically male or female. Live as whatever you want, otherwise.

Don't stop the dialogue (but do keep respectful).

Really? You couldn't leave toxic masculinity behind, could you? You still have to tell us what to do. You come here to MumsNet, one of the few OL places where dialogue is actively welcomed, and the only OL place where the discussion does not degenerate into threats and namecalling, and you tell us to be RESPECTFUL.

I think the more open, honest conversation can be had about this issue, the better. And that can only happen if women, men, transwomen and transmen all talk to each other.

We trans widows had years of that when we were married, thanks.

Well, I'm sorry for your experience and anyone who's had similar.
But I don't think shutting down conversation is helpful.

@IntermittentParps

Well, I'm sorry for your experience and anyone who's had similar. But I don't think shutting down conversation is helpful.

I think you need to learn about forced teaming.

uncommongroundmedia.com/forced-teaming-feminism-lgb-and-trans-rights/

‘Live as a woman’ I was wondering what that actually meant too - not in an antagonistic way, just curious (does it take much thought or is it just natural?)

And I don’t think that you really want to be accepted as a woman. Everyday sexism sucks!

It is patently obvious who are genuine trans women and are indistinguishable (clothed at any rate) from women. If you are trans and not 1000% certain that no one wld know you were not a woman - be respectful of single sex spaces and don't go there, really not such a big deal to go to the loo in the accessible toilet.

‘Genuine’ transwomen may think that they’re indistinguishable from women. They may even be 1,000% certain of that - 10,000% certain even - but that’s still how they see themselves, not how women see them. It still doesn’t make it acceptable for them to use our spaces.

TinselAngel, I think you're being very patronising.

@IntermittentParps

TinselAngel, I think you're being very patronising.

Apologies if it comes across that way, my patience with this sort of thing is short after years plugging away at trying to get women to listen to trans widows over perpetrators.

@EmpressaurusWitchDoesntBurn

It is patently obvious who are genuine trans women and are indistinguishable (clothed at any rate) from women. If you are trans and not 1000% certain that no one wld know you were not a woman - be respectful of single sex spaces and don't go there, really not such a big deal to go to the loo in the accessible toilet.

‘Genuine’ transwomen may think that they’re indistinguishable from women. They may even be 1,000% certain of that - 10,000% certain even - but that’s still how they see themselves, not how women see them. It still doesn’t make it acceptable for them to use our spaces.

Yep.

Thank you OP. I'm sorry but I'm waiting for the other shoe to fall, but that's on me. I've never been able to take a compliment either!

Any road up, all the best to you.

There is no new "big push". Trans women have always used women's spaces. If you weren't aware of that prior to the current moral panic, it just goes to show how little trouble they cause.

Tiny numbers. And they were noticed. Now it's considerable numbers. Which is a huge problem for women's safety. Clearly you weren't aware of that.

Well done op btw. 👍

That’s great OP!

There is no new "big push". Trans women have always used women's spaces. If you weren't aware of that prior to the current moral panic, it just goes to show how little trouble they cause.

Mmm! That's not the whole story though is it?

Many women did notice, and kept quiet because they feared the backlash. It is far, far easier to leave the room, hurry on with your task, not look, not acknowldege, than it is to deal with a man in a sapce that is expected to be single sex and female.

And until relatively recently there weren't many transwomen and those who were around trried quite hard to be asiniffensive as ossible. Nowadays the numbers have risen, what constitutes a transwoman has changed and many choose to make eye contact, be almost combative about their choice to use women's facilities.

Well OP, it's a good thing you know what it's like around here. The pricklier responses to your post won't come as too much of a shock to you. Women need all the allies we can get, and I'd say that trans women who understand the issues are particularly important.