Gay men being subject to abuse for their sexuality

[secular111]

Or Homophobia as we know it.

The belief that the trans-activists would stop by just attacking lesbians turns out to have been a miscalculation; gay men are a target now, and the community is only just starting to wake-up to the threat it is facing.

Woke Homophobia

next to the old school homophobes we get people who have assigned themselves as 'allies' doing it, plus all the so called 'LGBT+' organizations.

Exactly this.

"I've honestly no idea what genitals 95% of the people I have found attractive had"

what complete and unmitigated bollocks

"I've honestly no idea what genitals 95% of the people I have found attractive had"

😂

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg

"I've honestly no idea what genitals 95% of the people I have found attractive had"

what complete and unmitigated bollocks

But maybe they had a pengina! Or a vulvis! Or a daffodil! Who can ever possibly know!

I mean it’s just pure coincidence the people I have been attracted to and managed to score with turned out to have a penis. It’s like I have a super power or something!

@yourhairiswinterfire

''Mental illness''

That's proper DARVO, that is.

"mental illness" to want to be with someone who matches your sexual orientation - FFFS! No, it's hardwired to want to be with someone who matches your sexual orientation. People can try to overcome it but it rarely sticks forever.

Anyone who doesn't give a crap about the genitalia of the person they sleep with is either bisexual or pansexual, which are (or were) standard sexual orientations. Well, bisexual at least. Pansexual seems to be the new cover-all for anything that doesn't fit into the standard LGB definitions.

I’m increasingly thinking the whole concept of ‘pan sexual’ is rooted in homophobia

There are many people who just don’t want to acknowledge the reality of same sex attraction

Pan sexuality is a nice shroud you can throw over it so no one has to actually mention homosexuality any more

With the advantage that straight people can identify as pan sexual and therefore claim oppression in some way

Honestly in terms of sexuality there are people attracted only to people of the opposite sex, only to people of the same sex and people who can be attracted to people of either sex. And it's possible to always believe you were straight or gay and then start feeling attraction to people of the sex you previously were not attracted to. Which is where the idea that sexuality is fluid comes from. But from my own experience and that of people I've talked to about that. In hindsight the signs of the potential to feel those attractions were always there on and off.

There are also people, I guess who never have sexual desires or feel attraction but I'm not wholly convinced that is a sexuality as opposed to a result of a psychological trauma or hormonal imbalance or other cause. I'm not 100% sure asexuality should be validated as a sexuality. Obviously no-one should be pushed to have sexual urges they don't want, but being able to access medical and psychiatric treatments to potentially help people discover sexual enjoyment would improve many people's lives? And instead now, they can be just told it's a type of sexuality, live with it and celebrate it with a crap flag.

Well there is something very 'queer theory' about telling lesbians and gay men that we should be functionally bisexual and unlearn their homosexuality while insisting that people who don't like sex that much are a special oppressed minority that you should never suggest might perhaps have a health issue needing investigation.

Especially if you watch any Ace spectrum 'educational' stuff and you get told that Ace people can actually like and enjoy sex a lot, or not, and that all these flags and labels signify fuck-all except the deeply tedious nature of these navel-gazers.

Which would be a 'so what?' subculture to ignore were it not for them cuckooing into orgs for LGB people who live in reality, not tumblr blogs.

The thing is, lack of libido can actually be a symptom of a serious illness. PCOS and endometriosis can both cause lack of sexual desire and arousal. If left untreated they can both lead to fertility problems/infertility, severe lifelong pain and increased risk of heart disease and certain cancers. With diagnosis and treatment so much of that can be prevented.

An automatic assumption that a lack of interest in sex is just a type of sexuality can lead to treatable illnesses being undiagnosed. Sometimes in men but I suspect much more often in women. Many women aren't taken seriously as it is, when they present with symptoms of these illnesses. We also, I think, have a tendency to just put up physical problems that on some level we know aren't normal. I really don't think we need increased normalisation of ignoring what could be symptoms of women's illnesses. While I do respect that many people are just happily content to not have sexual desire, I do think we should also keep an open dialogue about how it might be a sign that something is wrong. And not have a situation where talking about treating 'asexuality' feels like some sort of experimental conversion therapy.

Anyone who doesn't give a crap about the genitalia of the person they sleep with is either bisexual or pansexual, which are (or were) standard sexual orientations.

Speaking just for myself, while genitals aren't so much of an issue, it's what goes with them - the things I find attractive about women and the things I find attractive about men are different.

I'm not saying it could never happen, but so far I have never found a trans woman physically attractive. Something just doesn't click, though the closer to passing trans women often have too much of a Barbie doll look that just does nothing for me, and I don't find women with that look attractive either.

Trans men can be a bit more borderline, but in an attractive butch woman sort of way, so I guess that would be found offensive.

That would require nuance, not slogans. Can't see that catching on.

(Completely agree, btw)

Simon Callow now criticising Stonewall

Times share tokens still not working but here's an extract:

' Callow, who was involved in the anti-government protests that led to the foundation of Stonewall in 1989, said an “extraordinarily unproductive militancy” now surrounded its position. This uncompromising mood risked infringing women’s rights and could put pressure on young gay people to transition, he said, and it was a sign of the times that he felt nervous about the reaction he would stir up, simply for expressing his views.

“I shouldn’t have to fear in that way,” he said. “This is just tyranny and that’s what we’ve fought against all our lives, people saying, ‘this cannot be discussed’. Yes, it can be discussed. Everything can be discussed. I’ve always been perfectly prepared to discuss homosexuality with anyone on reasonable terms. I can form a conclusion about a person’s attitudes but I don’t for one second think they shouldn’t have them.” '

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/actor-simon-callow-attacks-stonewall-the-lgbtq-group-over-trans-self-identification-6l3nd7hw3

@GrolliffetheDragon

Anyone who doesn't give a crap about the genitalia of the person they sleep with is either bisexual or pansexual, which are (or were) standard sexual orientations.

Speaking just for myself, while genitals aren't so much of an issue, it's what goes with them - the things I find attractive about women and the things I find attractive about men are different.

I'm not saying it could never happen, but so far I have never found a trans woman physically attractive. Something just doesn't click, though the closer to passing trans women often have too much of a Barbie doll look that just does nothing for me, and I don't find women with that look attractive either.

Trans men can be a bit more borderline, but in an attractive butch woman sort of way, so I guess that would be found offensive.

This is very similar to what I have heard from other bisexuals as well - yes, they might be attracted to both men and women but that doesn't necessarily mean they are attracted to trans people, because things just don't really stack up in that person - mixed messages!

I am outside of this situation really, but if I was still in the dating game, I would find it difficult to date a trans anyone because of the lies. Of all things I hate in a partner, dishonesty is the biggest and I therefore couldn't put myself in a situation that was permanently dishonest.

Thanks @MiladyBerserko Simon Callow is legendary and this is a clear piece about the tyranny LGB are facing.

It's a relief to see more gay men stating that self-ID is dangerous to women for obvious reasons.
archive.ph/nYVfA#selection-903.0-903.343

Simon Callow 'one of the most outspoken critics of Section 28 '.

Good. Stonewall has to go.

"We’re watching as single sex spaces fall like dominoes, one after the other. I list several in the video" twitter.com/kurtistrippdied/status/1430208557681684488

Simon Callow? Whoop!

Although the TRAs will probably say something hideously ageist about him.

@RedDogsBeg

There seem to be an awful lot of them on that link, so here's a solution - date/fuck each other.

Same goes for Transwomen who claim to be lesbians, date/fuck each other.

Leave lesbians and gay men alone, they are same sex attracted not same gender attracted and undermining that is homophobic, homophobia is disgusting and is one of those categories protected under the hate crime legislation.

No-one is owed sex and if the people you want to have sex with don't want sex with you - tough, get over it.

This 100%

mixed messages!

Yes, mixed messages is it.

I am outside of this situation really, but if I was still in the dating game, I would find it difficult to date a trans anyone because of the lies. Of all things I hate in a partner, dishonesty is the biggest and I therefore couldn't put myself in a situation that was permanently dishonest.

It's like any potential relationship, some things are deal breakers. I couldn't be with someone who hated cats, or belittled my hobbies & interests, who had opposing political or religious beliefs and couldn't agree to disagree, and I couldn't be with someone who believes sex doesn't exist and is a social construct while gender is real and should be prioritized over all else.

@FloralBunting

Simon Callow? Whoop!

Although the TRAs will probably say something hideously ageist about him.

It's courageous.

And you shouldn't need to be courageous to want conversations that affect so many people.

No-one is owed sex and if the people you want to have sex with don't want sex with you - tough, get over it.

I've watched a couple of interviews about Amia Srinivasan's book: The Right to Sex

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1526612534/?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

It's very discomfiting and would be to a wide range of people. tbh, her argument that people need to interrogate their history of desire to uncover their (presumed) prejudices sounds exhausting and desire culling. I largely didn't agree with her but she makes her arguments well.