Gay men being subject to abuse for their sexuality

[secular111]

Or Homophobia as we know it.

The belief that the trans-activists would stop by just attacking lesbians turns out to have been a miscalculation; gay men are a target now, and the community is only just starting to wake-up to the threat it is facing.

Woke Homophobia

They use the cigarette emoji to get past the Twitter filters, instead of typing the word 'fag'.

Some of the people who 'like' the tweets are shocking - PhD students and doctors who work at universities.

Tabby Lamb did this. Apparently they are a bi woman (despite a thick moustache), and that means they can call people fags and attack gay men for being prepared to appear on Strictly after they had the nerve to accept Robert Webb as a contestant.

But then you have gay men supporting it. I was lectured by a Buzzfeed journalist that trans people have the right to use the word fag to attack people with.

I was openmouthed reading about Boyz magazine above. Homophobia from THT who I previously respected.

I wonder if it'll ever be sorted out. Homophobia to men from transmen demanding validation and gay-focused charities moving on to trans. Homophobia to lesbians from transwomen demanding validation. The misogyny of the movement, the name-calling, the violence. Women's charities now led by transwomen and focusing on their needs.

Well I think I've climbed another mountain reading this thread. The obvious hatred, the threats and the spite coming from that feathery poster. and this is the voice of "be kind?"

@Snoozer11

They use the cigarette emoji to get past the Twitter filters, instead of typing the word 'fag'.

Some of the people who 'like' the tweets are shocking - PhD students and doctors who work at universities.

Tabby Lamb did this. Apparently they are a bi woman (despite a thick moustache), and that means they can call people fags and attack gay men for being prepared to appear on Strictly after they had the nerve to accept Robert Webb as a contestant.

But then you have gay men supporting it. I was lectured by a Buzzfeed journalist that trans people have the right to use the word fag to attack people with.

That's disgusting. I have seen for myself how TRAs use the f slur against gay men. We really are going backwards in terms of homophobia.

It's difficult. I was reading something in a professional capacity recently and some contributors wanted to be referred to as 'queer' rather than gay.

I've got friends and family who were queer-bashed and endured serious harm - I can't countenance the term. Yet, this is the term the contributors have selected. I also need to bear in mind the likely readership for the final output as a proportion of them might be of a demographic to whom the term is anathema and don't recognise the 'reclaiming' of the word.

Adding this here ascwell, as it's relevant.

twitter.com/TidyStewart/status/1424682563931672576?s=19

[quote FloralBunting]Adding this here ascwell, as it's relevant.

twitter.com/TidyStewart/status/1424682563931672576?s=19[/quote]
What TidyStewart describes is an example of preference falsification - so many people are discovering that lots of others loathed the term and had falsely perceived that they were in a minority.

Preference falsification, according to the economist Timur Kuran, is the act of misrepresenting one’s wants under perceived social pressures. It happens frequently in everyday life, such as when we tell the host of a dinner party that we are enjoying the food when we actually find it bland. In Private Truths, Public Lies , Kuran argues convincingly that the phenomenon not only is ubiquitous but has huge social and political consequences. Drawing on diverse intellectual traditions, including those rooted in economics, psychology, sociology, and political science, Kuran provides a unified theory of how preference falsification shapes collective decisions, orients structural change, sustains social stability, distorts human knowledge, and conceals political possibilities.

A common effect of preference falsification is the preservation of widely disliked structures. Another is the conferment of an aura of stability on structures vulnerable to sudden collapse. When the support of a policy, tradition, or regime is largely contrived, a minor event may activate a bandwagon that generates massive yet unanticipated change.

In distorting public opinion, preference falsification also corrupts public discourse and, hence, human knowledge. So structures held in place by preference falsification may, if the condition lasts long enough, achieve increasingly genuine acceptance. The book demonstrates how human knowledge and social structures co-evolve in complex and imperfectly predictable ways, without any guarantee of social efficiency.

www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674707580

The look inside for the book on Amazon is decent (and an easier read than the above).

My DH reminded me last night that he used to perform door work at Terrence Higgins Trust charity events in the mid-1980s, particularly at The Reform Club in London. Kinda strange how the organisation has changed its focus. He can't rightly believe it. I guess though that as Stonewall is increasingly identified as a homophobic lobby group, THT could change too.

I can't see the New Homophobia or 'Woke Homophobia' now being observed, both online and it appear, IRL as being something that won't escape media scrutiny. The number of, notably, gay men, who are becoming aware of it, let alone being victims of it, must be reaching something like critical mass. I imagine that the social circles of the likes of LOJ and the ribbon-fearful Scottish actor will be dramatically-reduced as they become identified as Quislings for their own sexuality.

How will UK and US society, and particularly the media take to New Homophobia? At-the-moment it looks like The Guardian, New York Times and BBC will do their level best to ignore it, whilst The Times, Telegraph, Spectator and others will find it a subject rich for headlines and long investigative pieces.

New Homophobia…as being something that won't escape media scrutiny. The number of, notably, gay men, who are becoming aware of it, let alone being victims of it, must be reaching something like critical mass. I imagine that the social circles of the likes of LOJ and the ribbon-fearful Scottish actor will be dramatically-reduced as they become identified as Quislings for their own sexuality.

My hope is that Owen Jones and David Paisley might listen to their own circle of friends and followers and come to revise their position on several matters. (I can't think of any other strategy apart from depolarisation and the golden bridge along with similar escape routes).

-----

Reproduced from comment on a different thread:

A different take on why people need golden bridges from an anti-vaxxer perspective and using what is known about perpetrating cons/fraud:

Goffman observed that all “marks” eventually come to understand that they have been defrauded. But strangely, they almost never complain or report the crime to the authorities. Why? Because, Goffman argues, admitting that you have been conned is so deeply shameful that “marks” experience it as a kind of social death – the painful end of one of the many social roles we all play.
…
Within those groups, we can pinpoint influential members who may be turning their backs on Covid denialism, and encourage them in their journey. We can message them offering support, particularly if our reference groups overlap – whether that means sharing the same home town, or practising the same faith. The more shared social space, the better. We might offer to back them up if they get trolled for expressing misgivings about Covid denialism. Or we could let them know that we would admire them for telling the truth.

Those people may not have a television audience of millions, but they nonetheless have the potential to act as “coolers” for those in their reference groups – both online and off. The higher their status within the groups, the more influence they will have in reconciling their fellow travellers to the reality of the pandemic, perhaps enabling them to rejoin society, or at least preventing them from endangering the rest of us.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/aug/09/convince-anti-vaxxers

archive of article: archive.is/1JAfS

I've no idea how the above is possible if SM platforms keep banning some people because this reduces interaction. And, much as I think the ability to block and mute is much needed (especially by women) it does facilitate being in a bubble - which is why those crossover coolers are so necessary.

If OJ doesn't want a golden bridge, this doesn't mean that one shouldn't be available both to him and his followers - especially if the latter were well positioned to act as "coolers" on some features of the public discussion.

RainbowPellet on your own criteria - welcome aboard the transphobic train. Not sure it will meet your expectations for hate as I haven't seen any, but we do recognise reality and that sex matters.

I think being here and using vocabulary like "peaked" implies you were already transphobic as it were... just waiting to hop aboard a transphobic hate movement.

So, you're saying reading posts on mumsnet makes you transphobic?

But you're here and posting.So what does that make you? You'

You actively incite hatred against lesbians, gay men and brand them as transphobic genital fetishists...

You definitely have seen it, you just don't "see" it because you don't disagree with it, because you aren't the target.

Message deleted already? The feigned "neutrality" of the moderation here is such a joke.

@RainbowPellet

Message deleted already? The feigned "neutrality" of the moderation here is such a joke.

You must have said something

They dont just delete people

@Wrongsideofhistorymyarse

I was openmouthed reading about Boyz magazine above. Homophobia from THT who I previously respected.

I wonder if it'll ever be sorted out. Homophobia to men from transmen demanding validation and gay-focused charities moving on to trans. Homophobia to lesbians from transwomen demanding validation. The misogyny of the movement, the name-calling, the violence. Women's charities now led by transwomen and focusing on their needs.

When I told a friend of mine who has HIV about THT he was utterly devastated, as they'd been such a great help to him after he was diagnosed. It totally crushed him

Wrongsideofhistorymyarse

I was openmouthed reading about Boyz magazine above. Homophobia from THT who I previously respected.

It still shocks me. For many reasons (familiar to reads of MN threads passim) I am extremely unhappy with the Guardian, but if I was on the board of THT, would that stop me advertising with the Graun? Absolutely not.

My professional responsibility to reach unknowingly undiagnosed HIV positive people, and get them in for testing and treatment would entirely trump my personal dislike of the Guardian's coverage of women's issues.

My professional responsibility to reach unknowingly undiagnosed HIV positive people, and get them in for testing and treatment would entirely trump my personal dislike of the Guardian's coverage of women's issues.

It's like the 'cervix haver' nonsense, isn't it. Who gives a damn if women with cervical cancer or men with HIV don't access the help they so desperately need, as long as the organisation retains it's 'purity'. I despair.

@RainbowPellet

Message deleted already? The feigned "neutrality" of the moderation here is such a joke.

My guess is - and it's just a guess, going by what the message implies - is that you didn't stick to the Talk guidelines. Nothing to do with views held by moderators. Hope that helps! I

And in a viral pandemic too. David Bridle made the point better on his own piece, but it was even more important than ever to reach people who didn't know they were HIV positive.

It's like the THT forgot what HIV is and what it develops into!

My professional responsibility to reach unknowingly undiagnosed HIV positive people, and get them in for testing and treatment would entirely trump my personal dislike of the Guardian's coverage of women's issues.

Exactly! Go where your audience/client group is.

And - thank you for the work you do. I saw this summary of the Sultan paper below and it highlights the need for a plurality of approaches and ways of reaching people.

www.aidsmap.com/news/apr-2021/testing-homeless-people-during-covid-19-identifies-several-new-hiv-cases-especially

Sultan B et al. High prevalence of HIV among people who experience homelessness in London: results of an innovative peer-centred outreach blood-borne virus testing service initiated at the start of the COVID epidemic. Fifth Joint Conference of the British HIV Association (BHIVA) and the British Association for Sexual Health and HIV (BASSH), abstract 10, 2021.

@dontyouworrychild

So let me see if I've got this right.

Gay man to straight man: Can we date/have sex?
Straight man to gay man: Sorry, I'm not into lads.

Perfectly fine, not homophobic just not the persons preference

Lesbian to straight woman: Can we date/have sex?
Straight woman to lesbian : Sorry, I'm not into ladies

Also perfectly fine, not homophobic just not the persons preference

Trans man to straight or gay man: Can we date/have sex?
Straight or gay man to Trans man: Sorry, I'm not into trans men

Transphobe

Trans woman to straight woman or lesbian: Can we date/have sex?
Straight or lesbian woman to trans woman: Sorry, I'm not into trans women

Transphobe

Is that what some (and it must be some because surely not all of them think this?) trans people are claiming? Because that's just boggling. It's utterly ridiculous.

Nobody, but nobody has the right to tell anyone who they must or must not date or have sex with. Everyone is allowed to choose. You do not, as a trans person, have the right to demand that anyone dates or sleeps with you, lest they be labelled a hateful bigot!

Jesus wept.

Great post.

Taking it further:

Straight man to transwoman who identifies as lesbian:
Can we date/have sex?

??????

Are they allowed a veto on the grounds of believing themselves to be a lesbian in this brave new world?

A Scottish woman Marion Miller has been charged for online transphobic and homophobic malicious communications. Apparently for several tweets made from 2020-21 targeting a gay man who supports LGBT rights.