Girlguides - is it a lost cause?

[iamruth]

Having pulled both of my daughters out based on their switching of gender/sex and what Myself and my husband believe are strong safeguarding concerns as a result as well as the general erosion of girls’ rights as a result I’m wondering if it’s now a lost cause? Is there any chance at all of them being challenged or is that it now?

A general comment, not just on GG:

Even if you believe that womanhood or girlhood are states of mind rather than bodily facts, it is undeniable that most of the long-standing women-only or girls-only provisions were created with the assumption (or if you prefer, misassumption) that women and girls are a single sex group.

And because they were never set up with a mixed sex group in mind, they don’t necessarily have appropriate structures and processes for mixed sex groups.

GG, for example, when they thought about their residential or camping rules and guidelines, simply never had to consider that some teenage girls can get other teenage girls pregnant.

So what I don’t understand is why, now all these groups are deciding that women, or girls, actually are mixed sex, they aren’t starting by going back to rethink and where necessary change what they do to fit that mixed sex model. If, as they seem to believe, we were wrong about what a woman or a girl is all this time, why on earth do they assume everything set up under that wrong definition is still right for the new one?

Because, @WomenTalkingAboutARevolution, they have no insight that they ever get things wrong, or if they do, won't admit it. They're so arrogant "we've done this for over 100 years, how could we ever get anything wrong" sort of attitude.

The fact that they apologised for being so discriminatory in May, yet seem to have done FA about it on the ground (ie just some token gestures on social media) shows that they will never fix it when they get something wrong.

@LaPufalina

My eldest DD goes to pony club and they earn badges there these days (didn't when I was a kid). I volunteered to run a basic badge session after a lesson, for the youngest kids (4-7) and had a pretty extensive safeguarding briefing, even though at least one parent was attending with every child. I was so reassured by their processes and commitment to privacy and protection. Should get someone from PCUK on secondment to GG

I think it would be hard for pony club to buy into twaw. They all know firsthand geldings are not transmares.

Good to know how robust their safeguarding is though.

My point was that GG is only effectively run at a regional/unit level. We all ignore the other stuff.
Those in ‘charge’ will soon be ousted and common sense will prevail

What do/would you put on your risk assessment if a male was present at a residential?

@MrsFin

*My point was that GG is only effectively run at a regional/unit level. We all ignore the other stuff. Those in ‘charge’ will soon be ousted and common sense will prevail*

What do/would you put on your risk assessment if a male was present at a residential?

You’re assuming risk assessments get read?

They’re not in some areas, before sign off, and there’s no way of checking / accountability for that, until something goes wrong. Then, of course, some poor volunteer will get thrown under a bus.

I agree. When I took on the role of District Commissioner, then Division Commissioner there was a lot of Ill feeling because I refused to sign off residential authorisation forms and risk assessments that previous DCs would have signed off. Some were appalling! First aiders arriving several hours after the event had started, for example. I wasn't the most popular DC
The general attitude was "I've been running events like this for years and I know it will be fine".
Honestly, one of the other reasons for resigning (there are several!) was that when I became a DC I realised how badly individual units were run and felt powerless to make any changes, although I tried.

When I first volunteered, about 20 years ago, GG was a fantastic organisation, but it's really lost it's raison d'être in recent years.

@MrsFin

I agree. When I took on the role of District Commissioner, then Division Commissioner there was a lot of Ill feeling because I refused to sign off residential authorisation forms and risk assessments that previous DCs would have signed off. Some were appalling! First aiders arriving several hours after the event had started, for example. I wasn't the most popular DC The general attitude was "I've been running events like this for years and I know it will be fine". Honestly, one of the other reasons for resigning (there are several!) was that when I became a DC I realised how badly individual units were run and felt powerless to make any changes, although I tried.

When I first volunteered, about 20 years ago, GG was a fantastic organisation, but it's really lost it's raison d'être in recent years.

@MrsFin, you are (or were) in my view, one of the best things in GirlGuiding. Someone who makes sure rules are followed because they’re there for a reason. Thank you.

No FirstAider present? WTAF? What did they think they’d do if someone was ill or seriously injured before the First Aider arrived?

Thank you for all you did to keep girls safe. I’m sorry you felt so powerless to make changes. Can I ask what you did to try to affect change, other than telling people that their risk assessments needed further work?

I think “I’ve been running... this for years and I know it will be fine” appears to be the attitude of the organisation rather than a few individuals. Having said that, I do want to say there are some totally awesome and dedicated volunteers (ie overwhelming majority of people running units), and this isn’t a dig at them.

Why do you think this happens? Do you think volunteers are given too much responsibility? Not enough time? Not enough training? Not enough assessment? Not any checking if there is a DC who’s signing off anything?

Did anything ever happen as a result of this laid back attitude to things like risk assessments?

I agree with the changes over the last 20 years. It’s changed beyond all recognition in terms of what I see, although I don’t know if this is repeated through the country and I’d be interested to find out.

Hi Eggy

I'll reply to your post tomorrow. There's too much rugby i need to concentrate on this afternoon/evening, and you deserve a decent reply.

Thanks @MrsFin. Feel free to PM if easier.

And just for clarity, I know everyone gives up their time for free and has a good heart. I just worry that there’s things that aren’t being done right, and that doesn’t seem to be getting out right.

I feel that too many institutions/organisations are going the same way - continually pushing this agenda and just adding to this worrying trend. Children and young people are being encouraged to question this issue and in my view this constant pressure is not good

I think people will vote with their feet as I did for my girls who would have benefited hugely from GG.

@5zeds

I think people will vote with their feet as I did for my girls who would have benefited hugely from GG.

What were your concerns that meant your girls didn’t go to GirlGuiding @5zeds?

I was a Rainbow, Brownie, Guide, Ranger, Young Leader and then was a Leader until my late 20's. Always assumed I would go back to Guiding and would send my girls as it had been such a big part of my childhood/young adulthood.

Not now. Just too many concerns about safeguarding, the new programme, risk assessing. A real shame.

@twelly

I feel that too many institutions/organisations are going the same way - continually pushing this agenda and just adding to this worrying trend. Children and young people are being encouraged to question this issue and in my view this constant pressure is not good

I agree with this. Its just confusing the children. I imagine in most groups it just doesn't come up at all.

As for the other concerns, girl guides expect so much from volunteers to run a unit. I do truly think those at head office think volunteers have hours and hours of free time. Support could be so much better.

@Waitwhat23

I was a Rainbow, Brownie, Guide, Ranger, Young Leader and then was a Leader until my late 20's. Always assumed I would go back to Guiding and would send my girls as it had been such a big part of my childhood/young adulthood.

Not now. Just too many concerns about safeguarding, the new programme, risk assessing. A real shame.

@Waitwhat23 it’s certainly almost unrecognisable compared to 20 years ago. It’s so sad. Please can I ask what your specific safeguarding and risk assessment concerns are? I certainly have some too, but would be interested to hear if they’re similar

I have quite a few -
Claiming that a single sex organisation is still single sex when it is not, it has become mixed sex. If Guiding wants to become a mixed sexed organisation (like Scouting), I think it would be an almighty shame for girls to lose their own space but at least then policies/procedures/risk assessing would be based on mixed sex concerns (sleeping arrangements when camping etc) rather than

Sorry pressed post too soon!

Other concerns I have is the frankly rude dismissal of volunteers concerns by Guiding on social media and women like Katie Alcock being pushed out the organisation for raising concerns.

Pp's have mentioned poor training and support for volunteers and the pp (District and Division Commissioner) has mentioned many things where people are stuck in a 'I've always done it this way, it'll be fine' mentality.

Other more general concerns are the change in the programme and general feel of the activities offered to the girls which seems to have become much more sedentary and less empowering/interesting/exciting.

Also, from what I've seen from friends etc who are involved in Guiding, there's less and less volunteers and so more and more time and energy pressures put on the remaining volunteers.

Also, there seems to be a lot more prescriptive thinking (not necessarily across the board but enough to make me concerned). There's been a couple of threads about girls only being able to do specific interest badges at specific times, mandated by the Guiders which to me restricts the interests and enthusiasm of the girls.

@Eggybrains mixed sex accommodation and toileting facilities. Being trained to accept mixed sex and call it and behave as though it was single sex. I think single sex activities are hugely beneficial to young girls/women for all sorts of reasons. The inclusion of confused and confusing young men in that space would remove much of what attracts me to it. It would mean being at odds with the adults allowing this nonsense and not participating in residential etc, so likely to cause my child to feel upset.

District commissioner for Southwell, Nottinghamshire

Monica Sulley (@MonicaTetley) Tweeted: It's been a seriously shit few weeks for trans people in the UK. Here's approx 40 years of me, wife, mother, grandmother, sister, aunt, niece, musician etc.
I'm just a woman living her life the best she can t.co/Y3czDeiS2w

Now obviously I am in no way suggesting this specific person is a risk but GG is clearly no longer a single sex organisation when it comes to leadership. That in itself is also not a problem, scouts is mixed sex, but organisations should not be lying and saying they are single sex when they are mixed sex.

@WomenTalkingAboutARevolution

District commissioner for Southwell, Nottinghamshire

Monica Sulley (@MonicaTetley) Tweeted: It's been a seriously shit few weeks for trans people in the UK. Here's approx 40 years of me, wife, mother, grandmother, sister, aunt, niece, musician etc.
I'm just a woman living her life the best she can t.co/Y3czDeiS2w

Now obviously I am in no way suggesting this specific person is a risk but GG is clearly no longer a single sex organisation when it comes to leadership. That in itself is also not a problem, scouts is mixed sex, but organisations should not be lying and saying they are single sex when they are mixed sex.

That person describes themselves as a mother? I wonder what the kids think about that?

I can’t believe we can’t say it’s a massive safeguarding red flag that a male wants to be a senior leader in the girl guides. If Monica didn’t identify as a woman, nobody would think this was appropriate.

Monica also posts pictures of Monica in BDSM gear on social media. Not very appropriate.

I can’t state the bleeding obvious as I’ll be deleted, but come on!

That person describes themselves as a mother? I wonder what the kids think about that

I wonder what the actual mother thinks about that

Hmm, blocked from that twitter despite never knowingly interacted with them. A shame, I suspect it would have been enlightening.

@Binglebong

Hmm, blocked from that twitter despite never knowingly interacted with them. A shame, I suspect it would have been enlightening.

You can often open it in a browser window to read without logging into twitter