Girlguides - is it a lost cause?

[iamruth]

Having pulled both of my daughters out based on their switching of gender/sex and what Myself and my husband believe are strong safeguarding concerns as a result as well as the general erosion of girls’ rights as a result I’m wondering if it’s now a lost cause? Is there any chance at all of them being challenged or is that it now?

When my DDs started Guides, there were still lots of Scout Leaders being prosecuted.

A girls only group seemed a bit old fashioned (and in my day, Brownies/Guides got to do hostess badges, cooking and cleaning etc which we railed against along with learning it in school). However, I was talked out of it by the local dedicated Guide leader, who emphasised the safeguarding aspect, and also the social aspect, and also promised lots of kayaking and camping and stuff. So they went, and they loved it.

The leader is still there working away. She has probably dedicated her life to it. Her husband also does important voluntary work. They are very selfless. It is these people on the ground, rather than those promoting ACE sexualities on Twitter that make it work. The numbers of groups are going down. They are being let down.

I think it still has its place and especially the younger girls enjoy the traditional activities such as camps. A lot of these activities are timeless. The senior management time are rather out of touch with what they try to promote.

Absolutely, there are some fantastic, amazing, dedicated volunteers on the ground.

My issue is if those further up the tree are ignoring their policies to keep girls safe, how do you know if you’re getting a leader who thinks that’s important, and makes sure it happens, or one that is happy to go along with a laissez-faire attitude to keeping girls safe.

Does anyone know when Katie Alcock case is happening? I haven’t seen any email updates for a few months and I can’t remember what was happening (I know these cases are slow, must be awful for those involved)

You can't know really except from word of mouth for the moment.

@WomenTalkingAboutARevolution

Does anyone know when Katie Alcock case is happening? I haven’t seen any email updates for a few months and I can’t remember what was happening (I know these cases are slow, must be awful for those involved)

I think the timing Katie’s case is indirectly linked into Maya’s forthcoming tribunal, in that it may set a precedent that helps Katie’s case.

@WomenTalkingAboutARevolution

Does anyone know when Katie Alcock case is happening? I haven’t seen any email updates for a few months and I can’t remember what was happening (I know these cases are slow, must be awful for those involved)

I think she has a long wait ahead as all courts backed up because of COVID. I don’t think she has a date. Is that correct Katie?

Agree with those pointing out the selfless commitment of so many women involved in GG.
It's interesting contrast to the extreme porn fascination of the adult that the GG chose to advise them about removing safeguarding and girl's rights. Their personal fascination (according to their publications) included snuff, bestiality, incest, rape porn, mainly involving girls and women and framed as a matter of freedom of sexuality.

When I saw that several years ago, I understood that yes, the GG was a lost cause. No decent organisation involved with children would ever allow these values to be promoted to children. Yet here we are.

@Melroses

You can't know really except from word of mouth for the moment.

Isn’t that bloody awful? What if you don’t hear anything? Do you think they’re keeping girls safe or not?

Shouldn’t they just be doing things right to protect our girls? I never would have thought a youth organisation would behave like this and have such a laid back attitude to keeping them safe. I heard (I’m not sure if this is correct), that when Helen Watts asked about what happens if a Guide comes back pregnant after sharing a tent with a trans girl, they said “our insurance will cover it”. Is that what they say to any form of not keeping our girls safe, like performing basic checks to decide if leaders are barred from working with children? They don’t care about girls as long as insurance will cover the cost when sued?

My eldest DD goes to pony club and they earn badges there these days (didn't when I was a kid).
I volunteered to run a basic badge session after a lesson, for the youngest kids (4-7) and had a pretty extensive safeguarding briefing, even though at least one parent was attending with every child. I was so reassured by their processes and commitment to privacy and protection. Should get someone from PCUK on secondment to GG

Thing is GG leaders control their waiting lists and 99% of them do the voluntary role as they believe in girls groups and in creating an environment where girls can have fun.

Most of us are also very good at ignoring the crap from HQ. Training is okay - but a bit waffly for me, but I’m level 4 safeguarding trained - there was no mention of any gender/sex issues during any training I’ve done.

The organisation is run by the volunteers not the cheap ineffective pseudo-educators they employ in their head office. Like any charity, I suspect they don’t pay well and can only afford people who are very young.
At a unit/regional level isn’t is not an issue.

The problem is that, the minute they do recant, they are stuck having to deal with the "transgirls" and trans women they have allowed to get involved. The fallout will be horrendous, the TRAs will slaughter them
Good enough for them... Ahead of the law, my arse.

At a unit/regional level isn’t is not an issue
Well, that's reassuring. Shame we have to be thankful for small mercies, though.

@GreyhoundG1rl

At a unit/regional level isn’t is not an issue Well, that's reassuring. Shame we have to be thankful for small mercies, though.

My point was that GG is only effectively run at a regional/unit level. We all ignore the other stuff. Those in ‘charge’ will soon be ousted and common sense will prevail.

Oh no, sorry, I did get that
Well done to you all 👍

My 5 year old has just been offered a place at Rainbows after being on the waiting list for 2 years.

I am so conflicted and think I have decided not to send her after reading up about their “inclusiveness policy.”

This makes me desperately sad as I loved rainbows, brownies and guides as a child. Learned so much and made lots of wonderful friends. But I can’t in good conscience send my daughter if I have concerns about their safeguarding and what it holds for the future.

*Thing is GG leaders control their waiting lists and 99% of them do the voluntary role as they believe in girls groups and in creating an environment where girls can have fun.

Most of us are also very good at ignoring the crap from HQ. Training is okay - but a bit waffly for me, but I’m level 4 safeguarding trained - there was no mention of any gender/sex issues during any training I’ve done.
The organisation is run by the volunteers not the cheap ineffective pseudo-educators they employ in their head office. Like any charity, I suspect they don’t pay well and can only afford people who are very young.
At a unit/regional level isn’t is not an issue*

Agreed - I'm GC, everyone I've spoken to in our Division agrees it's a load of crap.

Volunteers tend to feel that we run our units in spite of Headquarters, and get on with it at regional/ unit level and ignore the HQ missives imploring us to embrace whatever the current "thing" is. We and the girls in units are Girlguiding, not the paid employees who work for the organisation.

@underneaththeash

Thing is GG leaders control their waiting lists and 99% of them do the voluntary role as they believe in girls groups and in creating an environment where girls can have fun.

Most of us are also very good at ignoring the crap from HQ. Training is okay - but a bit waffly for me, but I’m level 4 safeguarding trained - there was no mention of any gender/sex issues during any training I’ve done.

The organisation is run by the volunteers not the cheap ineffective pseudo-educators they employ in their head office. Like any charity, I suspect they don’t pay well and can only afford people who are very young.
At a unit/regional level isn’t is not an issue.

I disagree that it’s not an issue at unit/ regional level. It might not be at your unit/ region, but I am confident that in some it is.

Our region recently sent out an email saying people needed a disclosure and safeguarding training, but that it was unsustainable for anyone to check that. How is that ok, when it’s something so important?

As for safeguarding training being ok but waffly, and you having done the highest level available, how is that ok? How is it ok to not actually give you any info on how to keep girls safe? My experience was that the training wasn’t anyone with any sense wouldn’t already know.

@CallingOnAvengingAngels

*Thing is GG leaders control their waiting lists and 99% of them do the voluntary role as they believe in girls groups and in creating an environment where girls can have fun.

Most of us are also very good at ignoring the crap from HQ. Training is okay - but a bit waffly for me, but I’m level 4 safeguarding trained - there was no mention of any gender/sex issues during any training I’ve done.
The organisation is run by the volunteers not the cheap ineffective pseudo-educators they employ in their head office. Like any charity, I suspect they don’t pay well and can only afford people who are very young.
At a unit/regional level isn’t is not an issue*

Agreed - I'm GC, everyone I've spoken to in our Division agrees it's a load of crap.

Volunteers tend to feel that we run our units in spite of Headquarters, and get on with it at regional/ unit level and ignore the HQ missives imploring us to embrace whatever the current "thing" is. We and the girls in units are Girlguiding, not the paid employees who work for the organisation.

If everyone is doing this in spite of HQ/ other higher ups, why do units pay, in many cases, more than half their subs/ income to these higher ups?

@MrsOvertonsWindow

Agree with those pointing out the selfless commitment of so many women involved in GG. It's interesting contrast to the extreme porn fascination of the adult that the GG chose to advise them about removing safeguarding and girl's rights. Their personal fascination (according to their publications) included snuff, bestiality, incest, rape porn, mainly involving girls and women and framed as a matter of freedom of sexuality.

When I saw that several years ago, I understood that yes, the GG was a lost cause. No decent organisation involved with children would ever allow these values to be promoted to children. Yet here we are.

Holy fuck who advised them?

The GG leadership that made that decision should be hanging their heads in shame

Here's an earlier thread: John Ozimek (now Jane Fae) on women, feminists and victims of pornographers www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374614-John-Ozimek-now-Jane-Fae-on-women-feminists-and-victims-of-pornographers?msgid=81271662#81271662

Fae also posted on Twitter that most women were killed because of domestic violence gone wrong and because we have eggshell skulls.

That is who advised Girl Guides on their policy development.

@NiceGerbil

The women on the ground IME are no shrinking violets and have a passion for giving space to girls.

I'm not sure if they all really know about the changes.

In the Division where I was Commissioner many, if not most volunteers were elderly. One had been a Leader for 50 years (she was in her 80s).

When I resigned - one of the reasons being I didn't want to sign off and therefore take responsibility for residentials where men were present without being able to insist on separate sleeping/washing/dressing/toileting areas, or at least call that out on a risk assessment - the general opinion was that I was making a fuss about nothing, and that it would never happen.

I should add that that role only applied to "men who say they are women". Actual men do have to sleep/wash/toilet/dress separately, and their presence is documented on the risk assessment.

[quote Clymene]Here's an earlier thread: John Ozimek (now Jane Fae) on women, feminists and victims of pornographers www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3374614-John-Ozimek-now-Jane-Fae-on-women-feminists-and-victims-of-pornographers?msgid=81271662#81271662[/quote]
how could GG not look at Fae’s ‘credentials’ and not say ‘wtf have we done?’