Mumsnet is hiving off sex/gender issues into a sub-forum

[YourSexNotGenderIsOnFire]

It sounds like it's happening:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4267223-Any-chance-of-a-review-of-the-FWR-moderation-rules-in-light-of-Maya-Forstaters-success-in-court-please

Many of us have explained how much we didn't want this and how unworkable it will be, but Mumsnet won't listen.

I honestly feel betrayed, and am just waiting for final confirmation then will delete my account.

Et tu, Justine?

@Sophoclesthefox

Thank you. I think number one and two can probably be discussed and never stray into forbidden territory, but number three, I don’t think can, because raising girls these days is absolutely fraught with issues relating to trans.

I’ve seen some rousing debate on gender pay gap, but I have to say that everyday sexism type threads don’t generate much interest.

And I’m still not sure why either of the first two would be difficult to discuss here.

So thanks, but I still don’t see the point.

Sorry, posted too soon - anything directly relating to trans discussion would be posted in the other topic.

It does seems real shame, but I am probably lazy, I don’t want to have to go between two boards and it has been wonderful to arrive here because of the problems facing women’s rights and discover so many other feminist issues on the same board that I otherwise would probably have never turned my mind (time, wallet...) to. Plus is it the topic that is the problem (ie the potential conflict between current trans activism and women’s rights) or is it the radical feminist perspective that causes the problem? Should someone wanting to start a thread about how trans rights don’t interfere with women’s rights start that in the new sub-topic or in feminist chat? Should someone wanting to start a thread about the awfulness of pornography or the need for the Nordic model do so in feminist chat or the new place?

Sorry if this was covered on the other threads on this.

@ErrolTheDragon

Gender pay gap? Everyday sexism? Raising girls?

People do post about those topics on FWR already. They're of general interest, wtf would anyone not?

Because the FWR board is mainly trans issues now.

The point is that some think there are lots of (potential?) feminists on Mumsnet who don't like to post in Feminism Chat because of all the nasty sex/gender threads there.

If all that stuff is put in a separate forum, they'll come out of hiding and start posting.

I await the outcome of this experiment with interest. I suspect the vast majority of posters will be people who also post in sex/gender.

It's a pity about the topic name.

Of course we could all subvert this in a way. If all the regular Feminism Chat users posted all their threads in the new topic (Sex and Gender), but began every thread with FWR - then we could reclaim FWR and make sure that all lurkers realise that the threads are about Feminism and Women's Rights.

The urls would read mumsnet.com/Talk/Sex and Gender/12345678-FWR thread title

I don’t actually mind a place where topics don’t drift too much if not necessary

I do mind the sex and gender name as I think we should stay as feminism something

But then, if during that conversation, I said “you know what, given all these pressures that young girls face, I can understand why opting out of womanhood altogether would seem like an attractive option”....then what?

Move thread?

Move me?

Delete post?

What should happen?

@womany
That’s a good point. Will the move be accompanied by a review of what we can/can’t say there? If the reason we have to be careful is some users object to certain terms or discussions by moving it to a specific sub forum those people will have to go out of there way to come across it. Which seems illogical to say the least. I would argue as long as we stick to Mumsnet site rules then we shouldn’t have to police our language any more than on other topics where people have strong feelings or might be offended/upset (religion, politics, breastfeeding etc).

@TurquoiseBaubles

It's a pity about the topic name.

Of course we could all subvert this in a way. If all the regular Feminism Chat users posted all their threads in the new topic (Sex and Gender), but began every thread with FWR - then we could reclaim FWR and make sure that all lurkers realise that the threads are about Feminism and Women's Rights.

The urls would read mumsnet.com/Talk/Sex and Gender/12345678-FWR thread title

Or just name the topic ‘FWR - Trans issues’

What is being discussed on a feminist board that does NOT in some way relate to sex & gender?

🤷🏾‍♀️

@Sophoclesthefox

But then, if during that conversation, I said “you know what, given all these pressures that young girls face, I can understand why opting out of womanhood altogether would seem like an attractive option”....then what?

Move thread?

Move me?

Delete post?

What should happen?

Nothing?

Perhaps they could call it 'Gender Critical Feminism'.

*Or just name the topic ‘FWR - Trans issues’

Definitely not. It’s protection of women’s rights first and foremost.

Because the FWR board is mainly trans issues now.

Screenshot of the topic list taken just now...

@Faffertea

I’ll wait and see what happens. I think initially they’ll be people posting to say how happy they are to have somewhere away from the vipers gender critical feminists but it will soon peter out because they’re not interested in discussing feminism, just in shutting us up.

I do think the word feminism needs to be in the new sub forum title though.

Agree completely - and I'm sticking around, too. MN is important.

Nothing

Well what is the point, then?

Why two boards?

doesn't realise how much its like walking on eggshells,

I learned about why you should be alert to that feeling on the relationships board.

I won't leave because no other site has such fantastic women as a majority, but I also feel quite sad that they want to change this section rather than add a subtopic for women who want a different atmosphere.

@MarshaBradyo

*Or just name the topic ‘FWR - Trans issues’

Definitely not. It’s protection of women’s rights first and foremost.

Ok then ‘FWR - Protection of women’s rights not trans movements’ or whatever.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Because the FWR board is mainly trans issues now.

Screenshot of the topic list taken just now...

I don’t know what each of those topics relate to so it’s hard to say what percentage are about trans issues.

FWR - Protection of women’s rights

Fine by me

@Sophoclesthefox

Nothing

Well what is the point, then?

Why two boards?

Because one board is directly related to trans issues, and the other isn’t.

Streamlining the number of sub-topics is OK, but Sex/Gender is a bloody stupid name for the new main topic, it should have a name reflecting that it will be the section for really talking about why we need feminism in the first place.

I propose "Reality-Based Feminism" and "BeeeeeeeKiiiindFluffyness."

Well obviously the best title for the new section would be "FWR"; I think few would object to "FWR" and "Feminism Chat", but it doesn't look like that's an option.

@AmIPeriOrAreYouJustAnnoying

What is being discussed on a feminist board that does NOT in some way relate to sex & gender?

🤷🏾‍♀️

Aye, exactly. I don't really see how this is going to work.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Because the FWR board is mainly trans issues now.

Screenshot of the topic list taken just now...

And isn't that just because the majority of users feel that's the most important, relevant and urgent issue for feminism right now? Creating a separate board is just a way of silencing that particular issue, a bit like if it was 1920 and people were complaining that feminism had been taken over by all this stuff about voting rights so could they have a forum in which women could discuss other feminist things that weren't this bloody voting.

It's like complaining that 80% of posts on the Christmas board are about Christmas presents and a special presents board must be created because there are so many other things people want to discuss about Christmas. Or that no-one feel like they can post about Easter instead.