Mumsnet is hiving off sex/gender issues into a sub-forum

[YourSexNotGenderIsOnFire]

It sounds like it's happening:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4267223-Any-chance-of-a-review-of-the-FWR-moderation-rules-in-light-of-Maya-Forstaters-success-in-court-please

Many of us have explained how much we didn't want this and how unworkable it will be, but Mumsnet won't listen.

I honestly feel betrayed, and am just waiting for final confirmation then will delete my account.

Et tu, Justine?

I don’t know what each of those topics relate to so it’s hard to say what percentage are about trans issues.

Ah, sorry. I assumed that because you said most threads were about trans issues you had looked at which threads were, and which threads weren't.

Well, good luck to whoever is going to be sorting out which thread to move where - it will be like untangling cold cooked spaghetti!

Because one board is directly related to trans issues, and the other isn’t

Well, I’ll be on the feminism board then I guess, because my interest is in women’s rights and feminism. I have no particular special interest in trans issues, as I broadly want people to live their lives as they see fit. I don’t have much to bring to a conversation on trans issues other than where they present a clash with women’s rights.

I’m more confused than ever about how this is going to work.

Feminism - women's rights & Feminism - chat would work.

Why make it all about trans or all about sex and gender - they are only a part of it.

What women are interested in is their rights.

@cakedays I’d say not, because the trans discussion one will be the most popular. So what they’re actually doing is creating a sub-category of ‘other issues’.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

I don’t know what each of those topics relate to so it’s hard to say what percentage are about trans issues.

Ah, sorry. I assumed that because you said most threads were about trans issues you had looked at which threads were, and which threads weren't.

Ok, I’ll go through them and do a tally in a minute.

@Sophoclesthefox

Because one board is directly related to trans issues, and the other isn’t

Well, I’ll be on the feminism board then I guess, because my interest is in women’s rights and feminism. I have no particular special interest in trans issues, as I broadly want people to live their lives as they see fit. I don’t have much to bring to a conversation on trans issues other than where they present a clash with women’s rights.

I’m more confused than ever about how this is going to work.

Why? That’s exactly how it’ll work - if you’ve no interest in trans issues then you’ll post on the other sub-section.

Perhaps what is really needed is a third space, where threads that identify as anything that looks sort of girly can go. Meanwhile, the nasty and difficult posts go in sex/gender, and the naice feminist issues that don't upset anyone can go in Feminist chat.

Is that right?

[quote Pumperthepumper]@cakedays I’d say not, because the trans discussion one will be the most popular. So what they’re actually doing is creating a sub-category of ‘other issues’.[/quote]
The "other things to discuss about Christmas as long as there's no mention of presents" board, you mean?

Perhaps what is really needed is a third space, where threads that identify as anything that looks sort of girly can go. Meanwhile, the nasty and difficult posts go in sex/gender, and the naice feminist issues that don't upset anyone can go in Feminist chat.

I think it should be Feminism and Women’s Rights and Feminism Chat.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

I don’t know what each of those topics relate to so it’s hard to say what percentage are about trans issues.

Ah, sorry. I assumed that because you said most threads were about trans issues you had looked at which threads were, and which threads weren't.

37/50 (although I’m counting on my phone so might be bit off either way) were about trans issues.

Or maybe we should just call the new boards "Nice feminism for Laydies" and "Nasty feminism for dried up vipers wot you can safely ignore".

Sorry dont have time to read all of this as it must be the 3 or 4 thread with us all saying the same as we have before.

So I will say again unless and until @MNHQ have a survey to find just how many think this needs to be done they the suspicions is that they are over reacting to a couple of emails.

The survey should not be public but reflect actual users of the site ie @MNHQ sends the link to the survey via our email addresses.

What a stitch.

And any way it wont work because anyone who thinkgs the basis of women's discrimination is their sex then they will continue to say this on what ever thread in whatever sub forum.

You cant separate feminism from the basis of women's discrimination which is our sex.

If this happens I suggest we leave the sex gender one to those who think gender is real, and we carry on using FWR (so called chat) which also has a far higher search profile. Anyone would think someone is trying to hijack the popularity of FWR to promote another agenda.

Very underhand and undemocratic.

Sounds about right, cakedays.

The "other things to discuss about Christmas as long as there's no mention of presents" board, you mean?

Exactly! How to cook the turkey, your husband doing fuck all, school nativities, New Year plans, holidays abroad and so on,

Because one board is directly related to trans issues, and the other isn’t.

That’s not fair and I believe you know it.

One board is directly related to women’s rights, to safeguarding, and the political movement that is trying to remove those rights.

That it happens to be a trans lobby that is in current, topical, dominant conflict is by-the-by. The same “passion and preponderance” (to quote Justine) would be in full force on these boards should the threats to those rights be imminent from any other organised group trying to remove them. Many feminists here would be just as vocal and active because they see the immediate threat and long-term effects of the loss of those rights.

@Pumperthepumper

The "other things to discuss about Christmas as long as there's no mention of presents" board, you mean?

Exactly! How to cook the turkey, your husband doing fuck all, school nativities, New Year plans, holidays abroad and so on,

Just pop over to the Christmas topic then, and count how many threads are not about presents...

People seem to have forgotten (or perhaps weren't on MN at the time) that the Feminism Chat topic was originally set up to be more of a light 'chat' topic (hence the name) and the more serious stuff was meant to go on the Feminst Theory and Feminist Activism topics.

I'm pretty sure at the time there was a lot of complaining that splitting the Feminism board into subtopics would ruin everything and lead to the death of feminist discussion on Mumsnet. Plus ca change...

Correction - what a stitch up!

@ShagMeRiggins

Because one board is directly related to trans issues, and the other isn’t.

That’s not fair and I believe you know it.

One board is directly related to women’s rights, to safeguarding, and the political movement that is trying to remove those rights.

That it happens to be a trans lobby that is in current, topical, dominant conflict is by-the-by. The same “passion and preponderance” (to quote Justine) would be in full force on these boards should the threats to those rights be imminent from any other organised group trying to remove them. Many feminists here would be just as vocal and active because they see the immediate threat and long-term effects of the loss of those rights.

Such as what? Surely whatever the non-trans issue that’s threatening women’s rights would be discussed on the non-trans board?

Just pop over to the Christmas topic then, and count how many threads are not about presents...

Ok, I will. Is there a second, non-presents board too? I thought you were joking.

I think it is more like have a forum for Black and Minority Ethnic People and then saying any discussion allowed so long as you dont discuss race and racism.

So this board will be for 3rd wave and the new board will be for 1st, 2nd and 4th wave, is that right?

I think it's a good idea.
The debate on the feminism boards is not one I want to be involved in and as a result I end up hiding the topic.

@NotDavidTennant

People seem to have forgotten (or perhaps weren't on MN at the time) that the Feminism Chat topic was originally set up to be more of a light 'chat' topic (hence the name) and the more serious stuff was meant to go on the Feminst Theory and Feminist Activism topics.

I'm pretty sure at the time there was a lot of complaining that splitting the Feminism board into subtopics would ruin everything and lead to the death of feminist discussion on Mumsnet. Plus ca change...

Those other boards are rather dead though.