Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Mumsnet is hiving off sex/gender issues into a sub-forum

327 replies

YourSexNotGenderIsOnFire · 15/06/2021 17:57

It sounds like it's happening:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/4267223-Any-chance-of-a-review-of-the-FWR-moderation-rules-in-light-of-Maya-Forstaters-success-in-court-please

Many of us have explained how much we didn't want this and how unworkable it will be, but Mumsnet won't listen.

I honestly feel betrayed, and am just waiting for final confirmation then will delete my account.

Et tu, Justine?

OP posts:
Bergamotte · 15/06/2021 20:25

I think it would really help if it was easier to see both topics.

At the moment, on the desktop site, at the top of the thread it says "Talk >> Feminism chat" so you can click to go back and see the whole first page of Feminism Chat (so can easily go through reading various different threads in it). You can't really see that "Feminist Theory" or "Feminist Activism" etc are options as boards.

On quite a few forums, it is laid out "Talk >> Feminism >> Feminist Chat" so you can just click "Feminism" and be taken to the titles of all the boards under the Feminism heading.
If that is an option for whatever software Mumsnet runs on, I think it would be a good thing to help everyone see both Feminist topics.

newstart1337 · 15/06/2021 20:27

So 'feminist chat' is no longer about being female. And anyone posting about what sex feminists are will be shunted off to the naughty corner where they have 'permission' to talk about their sex. Hmmm

All because some people have been emailing! I wonder what 'sex' these people are?

cakedays · 15/06/2021 20:27

Why not just rename one of the other boards "Liberal feminism"? Then we can see how much traffic it gets?

Pumperthepumper · 15/06/2021 20:28

@newstart1337

So 'feminist chat' is no longer about being female. And anyone posting about what sex feminists are will be shunted off to the naughty corner where they have 'permission' to talk about their sex. Hmmm

All because some people have been emailing! I wonder what 'sex' these people are?

No, anyone not posting about what sex is will be pushed off to a sub-topic.
Sophoclesthefox · 15/06/2021 20:28

@cakedays

Why not just rename one of the other boards "Liberal feminism"? Then we can see how much traffic it gets?
Makes much more sense.
Pumperthepumper · 15/06/2021 20:29

@cakedays

Why not just rename one of the other boards "Liberal feminism"? Then we can see how much traffic it gets?
Or ‘feminism - non-trans discussion’?
MarshaBradyo · 15/06/2021 20:30

Forget trans in the title

Make it woman centric instead

Bergamotte · 15/06/2021 20:31

@cakedays

Why not just rename one of the other boards "Liberal feminism"? Then we can see how much traffic it gets?
I think streamlining the Feminism section into two sections is fine. (as long as none of the old threads are deleted- they are so full of really valuable resources.)

But yes, it could be "Feminist chat" and "Liberal feminism."

Pumperthepumper · 15/06/2021 20:32

@MarshaBradyo

Forget trans in the title

Make it woman centric instead

That’s the point I made upthread though. The thing that groups the thread is ‘trans issues’.
LonginesPrime · 15/06/2021 20:32

But when you see it being called sex/ gender place I think that people might think we are actually talking about doing sex.

That’s what I would think

Well, if it raises awareness among feminists that sex and gender are two separate things, it may not be a bad thing.

PaleBlueMoonlight · 15/06/2021 20:34

Feminism - protection of women’s rights also sounds good to me (if they are going to do this)

EmpressWitchDoesntBurn · 15/06/2021 20:36

Feminism for Adult Human Females?

PerditaCambellBlack · 15/06/2021 20:37

Shame on you mumsnet

Talkwhilstyouwalk · 15/06/2021 20:39

Good!

TrifleCat · 15/06/2021 20:40

You cant separate feminism from the basis of women's discrimination which is our sex

Absolutely this. How can we discuss feminism if we can’t discuss being female?

If there must be a split of boards then surely it should be a new sub topic “liberal feminism” and keep feminism chat as it is.

ShagMeRiggins · 15/06/2021 20:41

Pumperthepumper I’ll reply in a moment (as I’m being a great feminist and making dinner for the Hormoaners while husband is in London having a work dinner), but

whatever the non-trans issue that’s threatening women’s rights would be discussed on the non-trans board?

I really dislike the way you’ve decided that the proposed Sex/Gender topic is now actually about trans rights and that the proposed Feminism Chat topic will be the non-trans board.

I mean, I really dislike that.

So not only are feminists being told that feminism can centre males, they’re being told it can centre trans persons.

You might as well have called me cis.

ShagMeRiggins · 15/06/2021 20:45

@Bergamotte

I think it would really help if it was easier to see both topics.

At the moment, on the desktop site, at the top of the thread it says "Talk >> Feminism chat" so you can click to go back and see the whole first page of Feminism Chat (so can easily go through reading various different threads in it). You can't really see that "Feminist Theory" or "Feminist Activism" etc are options as boards.

On quite a few forums, it is laid out "Talk >> Feminism >> Feminist Chat" so you can just click "Feminism" and be taken to the titles of all the boards under the Feminism heading.
If that is an option for whatever software Mumsnet runs on, I think it would be a good thing to help everyone see both Feminist topics.

Agree completely. It’s the same on a phone web browser—I don’t know about the app.

Worked in tech for a long time and those additional clicks/taps are pigs for users.

Pumperthepumper · 15/06/2021 20:47

@ShagMeRiggins

Pumperthepumper I’ll reply in a moment (as I’m being a great feminist and making dinner for the Hormoaners while husband is in London having a work dinner), but

whatever the non-trans issue that’s threatening women’s rights would be discussed on the non-trans board?

I really dislike the way you’ve decided that the proposed Sex/Gender topic is now actually about trans rights and that the proposed Feminism Chat topic will be the non-trans board.

I mean, I really dislike that.

So not only are feminists being told that feminism can centre males, they’re being told it can centre trans persons.

You might as well have called me cis.

It is about trans issues though, that’s why the proposal is to shave off everything else into a different topic. That’s why it’s been proposed.
ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/06/2021 20:50

It is about trans issues though, that’s why the proposal is to shave off everything else into a different topic. That’s why it’s been proposed

I agree. I don't understand why MNHQ doesn't just say that rather than coyly describing it as sex/gender issues.

MarshaBradyo · 15/06/2021 20:51

There only seems to be a few (if that) keen on trans in the title thankfully. So there’s no point in trying to use it.

I don’t want it to be male focused, as put by pp. It’s because women’s rights are impacted. I know not everyone gets it no matter how many times said. But it’s not wanted by most.

MarshaBradyo · 15/06/2021 20:53

I’m actually now keener for this new topic so all the posters posting ‘yay’ etc start posting there rather than focussing on something they’re not interested in.

mollythemeerkat · 15/06/2021 20:57

Im just confused - threads can end up with dozens of posts, some mentioning gender critical subjects, some not. Is it just the title of the thread they will go by? Like: "Maya Forstater decision" or something, or will the mods read every thread to see if its wandered into gender critical territory. Apologise if Im being thick here but cant see how anyone can have a fluent debate in these circumstances.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 15/06/2021 20:59

MNHQ will need to write a new set of pinned guidelines about which board to post on Grin

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/06/2021 21:00

I quite like Feminism - Not the Fun Kind! As a title. That would go a long way :)

I was going to suggest exactly the same Grin

ShagMeRiggins · 15/06/2021 21:09

It is about trans issues though

Again, I disagree. The many threads are about how women’s rights are threatened. For the past 5-6 years that threat has come mostly from the extreme trans lobby. That’s why it’s a hot topic here.

Perhaps when you use ‘issues’ and I use ‘rights’ we are discussing different things. That would be worth knowing.

To reply to your earlier question, women’s sex-based rights can be—and are—threatened by many other groups. Various cultural norms, religions, governments, and let’s not forget the unorganised group that is male pattern violence, which threatens everyone.

Right now, in the Western democracies and certainly in the UK, the conflict between female rights and trans rights is more pressing to me because the erosion or elimination of those rights will make other female rights—globally and culturally—more difficult to fight for, let alone uphold.

I welcome more voices in the feminist section of MN. I look forward to the many topics—nay, the deluge—yet to come.

But I will not be told that being gender critical is about “trans issues.” It is not. It never has been.

(Having completed dinner, I’m off to don my France football kit and catch the last part of tonight’s European championship football match.)