What's it really like for girls when one of their classmates is trans? A short film.

[Shizuku]

Sorry OP I honestly don’t know what you are getting at with that last post?

A worrying obsession with vulvas and clitoris's as far as I can tell.

What on earth has that got to do with a male child being where a male child shouldn't be, OP? Bit distasteful to use a girl with a medical condition to try to prove an unrelated and unevidenced agenda.

This is not the gotcha you think it is OP

That’s made me quite nervous OP regarding your intentions on here as the way you write that sounds odd.

Women really don’t look at each other and I can honestly say I’ve never seen another woman’s clixxxxx in the showers. Weird.

Don't appropriate intersex conditions mate.

Exactly.

I've reread the post.

Boys with a small penises are not girls with large clitorises.

People with DSD conditions are not your political football. Leave them alone.

It is odd.

And before there's the highly predictable gotcha about "why are you obsessed with genitals / penises" women do worry about males and their penises. A lot.

One in 40 women aged between 16 and 24 in England and Wales experience rape or assault by penetration, including attempts, each year, Office for National Statistics estimates suggest.

Sexual assault: 'One in 40' young women experience it each year www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56444275

Totally jumped the shark with that little gem, op 🙄

@Shizuku

Playing a game of "who has it worse" in order to get people to agree that boys can shower with girls

It really is the oppression olympics.

Well a quick Google tells me it's not that common, and children with this will be under fairly close medical supervision.

As such, the school would be well aware.

And it would be up to the child, and maybe what the school and family think best, where she changed. I'm guessing a separate area would be a solution. Or they might be excused from swimming if they were really uncomfortable.

Separate facilities have been rejected as a good option for trans children (and adults) again and again, unless they prefer that. That is the same with loads of stuff.

Single sex changing (when communal) is hideous enough. For both boys and girls. Mixing the sexes is not on.

And FYI using girls with DSDs, lesbians, the USA history of segregation to support your ideas is a dick move.

And a distraction.

Focus on the group you are talking about.

Explain why males with fully functioning bodies should be considered as girls or women. Without co-opting the situation/ struggles/ history of other groups of women. Can you give that a try please.

'women do worry about males and their penises. A lot.'

Lol and men are completely obsessed with theirs!

Drawing dicks all over everything since the dawn of time...

Oh dear!!!

A clitoris is a clitoris is a clitoris. Know what is NOT a clitoris. A penis.

You know that girls don’t stare at other girls clitorises. Or maybe you don’t know that.

I think we all know that you are really struggling here.

OP have you heard of meg-john Barker?

I think you would get on.

Meg-john says 'The clitoris and the penis are basically the same organ with sizes on a spectrum, and decisions get made about whether the organ ‘counts’ as a clitoris or a penis when we’re young, based on its size.'

Is that something you agree with?

Sadly I suspect the answer will be that if girls don't look then what's the problem with having a dick in the mix...

@NiceGerbil

OP have you heard of meg-john Barker?

I think you would get on.

Meg-john says 'The clitoris and the penis are basically the same organ with sizes on a spectrum, and decisions get made about whether the organ ‘counts’ as a clitoris or a penis when we’re young, based on its size.'

Is that something you agree with?

😂 oh my god! Someone actually said that? What a fucking fruit loop

Thank you all, you patient and intelligent folk of mumsnet. Thank you for your insights into safeguarding, psychology, science - the whole lot. Thank you for speaking out and educating so many of us. Its a shame that society cannot accept people for what they are - dress how you want when you go to work, go to the shops, watch TV etc. But single-sex spaces for women, health and other services for women, are essential and hard-fought-for. I am silenced. I am spending a lot of time worrying about the erasure of 'woman'.

@NiceGerbil

OP have you heard of meg-john Barker?

I think you would get on.

Meg-john says 'The clitoris and the penis are basically the same organ with sizes on a spectrum, and decisions get made about whether the organ ‘counts’ as a clitoris or a penis when we’re young, based on its size.'

Is that something you agree with?

I would suspect this nut job has only seen one of the organs in question, to imagine there could be any confusion between the two.

megjohnandjustin.com/bodies/small-penises/

There was a link ages ago where Barker explained that the clitoris and penis were essentially the same and size wise most people were somewhere in the middle... Which was erm. Interesting.

I can dig out s thread if you like don't want to side track this one.

Well no mjb is in a relationship with Edward lord who has a lot of clout and friends in high places. Lord is non binary but holds a senior position in the freemasons (men only). Also in city of London council through which he tried to remove loads of sex segregation (city of London owns and runs loads of stuff eg Hampstead ponds.

I'll find a thread I don't want to divert this one.

@NiceGerbil

Sadly I suspect the answer will be that if girls don't look then what's the problem with having a dick in the mix...

I am sure that will be next. But girls will be very much able to notice a penis in their room vs another clitoris.

So, if OP comes back with that, they don’t get how girls and women in shared spaces act. Maybe they never experienced it, maybe they as children never used a shared female space. That is what I guess.

Another clitoris, meh. Particularly in this age of body positivity and teaching girls that every labia, vulva is different.

Now a penis and testicles. Nah, they immediately stand out.
HTH

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3357713-BISH-proudly-supported-by

And now back to the topic of this thread.

Yes but we're supposed to ignore those penises. Because it doesn't matter whats in a transgirls pants. Even when we've previously been raped by a penis (well the penis owner) we should ignore them. Don't forget girls have to #benice

Now a penis and testicles. Nah, they immediately stand out

Yeah, unless I’m VERY unusual (spoiler- I’m not) a clitoris tends NOT to have a pair of knackers hanging off it.