Gender neutral toilet in Starbucks, and I’m livid

[MisfitRightIn]

I’m completely grossed out by something that happened last weekend. My 7yr DD and I went into what looked to be a brand new Starbucks, for a snack mid-3hr road trip. We live on the west coast US, for context.

Placed our order, then went to use the ladies room. There was no ladies room. The bathroom had a hand written sign saying GENDER NEUTRAL, ONE PERSON OR FAMILY AT A TIME. A man was leaving, and had left the door ajar. Pushing open the door, I see 2 other blokes using urinals, at which point I back out, whilst turning my daughter around so she doesn’t get an eyeful.

In the US, there aren’t double doors to bathrooms, and the urinals were on the left as the door opened right. Everything was out in the open in there.

We wait our turn, and once it’s clear, we go in and lock the door. There are 3 urinals in a row, and one stall, and the room smells like, well, a urinal. It seems like men are just using it like the gents, and this is the result.

I think I’m overreacting, I’m stressed leading up to the US election, and feeling fractious from lockdown, but WTF, it was utterly disgusting. We both took showers and changed clothes as soon as we arrived, as I was sure our shoes and jeans were gross. I’m still livid. Is this our future??? No ladies room and putting up with this shit?

When there is only one loo, and it is meant to be one at a time (a bit like my local small independent) then it has to be for everyone.

I prefer to use independent (or at least a small Birish chain) rather than a global one. I would be annoyed that part of a global chain was not providing more loos, or if the size of the shop prevented that, then they did not staff it properly - putting a PBCL on the loo, and having daily code changes, would remove the opportunity to crowd in plus keep the loo for genuine customers only

So that's a suggestion you might like to include when you write.

Plus address the point about cleaning. Just because some people are so rank that they leave a disgusting mess in the loo, doesn't mean that any other person (whether or not woman or girl) should put up with it

I think assuming that Gents will be smelly is wrong and doing a disservice to all normal, hygienic people

That's not a gender neutral bathroom - that's a men's bathroom with individual stalls in addition to the urinals. I don't understand why the Starbucks you went to would set that up as 'gender neutral' when it's anything but. I definitely would not take my 6-year old into a bathroom with full-grown men using urinals as we walk in.

Gender neutral is where there are individual cubicles only, no urinals or shared spaces. Certainly that has been my experience in Starbucks and coffee places near me. Most places near me are now going for 'gender neutral' facilities but with individual cubicles only, not urinals.

By cubicles, I mean fully self-contained bathrooms, where you have to queue one at a time outside of the cubicle to use them and the sink is inside so there is no shared space at all.

Urinals can never be gender neutral.

Keeping urinals is discriminatory and gives more space to males than females.

They should be removed and replaced with single stalls with floor to ceiling walls.

Every time you find a toilet in this state, as a staff member to accompany you into the toilets to inspect them and arrange for them to be cleaned.

I know that doesn't help if you have a child who needs to go immediately.

I would have been livid too, OP. It's not a trivial matter as a pp suggested, it's somethong some of us feel really strongly about. There's always the chance that men using urinals don't expect a woman and young girl to come to the room, it might also make them feel uncomfortable. Stranger things have happened!

I absolutely hate using gender neutral toilets and I would be writing to complain in your position OP.

Yep thats a mens loo with a new sign on the door. And yes this is our brave new world we in order to make a tiny minority feel comfortable we have to sit on pee covered seats and put up with the fact men don't lock the doors 🤮

And apparently everyone wants this

Keeping urinals is discriminatory and gives more space to males than females.

I am lost for words.
I can’t believe people actually think like this.

I really hate the arguments that other people have it worse, what's a bit of piss, just wipe it up. It's not a race to the bottom.
Gender neutral when they are like this are just a poor service from a lazy provider. It's not good enough and women should complain, loudly and specifically about why they are substandard.

Surprised at the number of people who do not support the op in this. So much wrong with the situation she found herself in from a hygiene, safety, decency and feminist point of view and this is a worldwide chain who have just jumped on the woke bandwagon with little to no thought for their women customers.

Wow. All the posts on here arguing that women should just put up with foul smelling, urine stained toilets and open urinals next to the loo when we've been used to having female facilities that do not wreak of urine and protect our privacy are supporting this massive goal post shift for what? For whom? Who benefits here? Why is a roll back in the quality of women & girl's provision acceptable?

Any unisex toilet I have been to just has stalls.
If it's a converted mens toilet and only one person or family group, then the door should be lockable, but if it has so many facilities people wouldn't do that as they would if there was just a single toilet.
The staff needs to monitor it and clean it hourly.

Why do male public toilets smell?

1. urinal splashes when men use urinals. These splashes can find their way to the floor and build up a pool of pee that leaves our nostrils combating with the smell.

2. Odour causing bacteria can penetrate porous surfaces, grout, even etched porcelain causing odour issues.

3. odour-causing bacteria use urine as a food source. A playing ground and feeding station for these microbes. They can heighten the pee smell in male public facilities. These organisms can use the urea, protein, and carbohydrates [found in urine] as a food source and produce byproducts, which our noses perceive as foul.

4. Public toilets with no-water urinals: These urinals can generate an intense urine smell if they are not properly maintained.

5. Urine splashing behaviour of some men: Some men do not properly control their genitals when having a wee. using their phone, or spitting can also lead to urine droplets finding their way to the floor

6. Men wee while standing: which can lead to splashbacks and droplets on the floor.

I don’t think I’ve been in a Starbucks that has a ladies room. It’s nearly always just a single occupancy stall. Those are for both sexes and no, I don’t care that men use the same toilet as me. I only care if they are in there at the same time as me. Women’s toilets also regularly have piss on the seat IMO. Not to mention overflowing sanitary bins and skid marks.

I also don’t understand why your jeans were on the floor and why you didn’t wipe the seat. Hovering over the seat causes piss to splash’s everywhere so wiping it down before sitting on it is actually more hygienic for everyone. Just carry a pack of anti bac wipes. Because of what sounds like a huge charade over how to use the toilet (putting trousers on the floor etc), you ended up with someone else’s piss on your clothes until you got home. Also, washing the soles of your shoes because the toilet wasn’t clean is OTT given the amount of crap on pavements that you will have walked over before getting home (dogs piss and shit on the ground all the time and traces are left even if owners pick it up).

Well women can hardly be blamed for the bins over flowing can they. Shows how easily women are forgotten about , where the facilities aren't usable because they don't organise them to be emptied

Pushing open the door, I see 2 other blokes using urinals, at which point I back out, whilst turning my daughter around so she doesn’t get an eyeful.

THIS. the starbucks setup erases the boundaries and dignity of women and girls.

THIS. the starbucks setup erases the boundaries and dignity of women and girls

Mn double standards at its best. Urinals are used as an excuse to bring boy children too old to use the womens toilets or sometimes even why the dads bring in their young children to the womens. Yet when women complain that the urinals make unisex toilets unclean and very unpleasant they are told to suck it up.

Well you all suck up the urinals in the mens then with your sons

❤️👏👏👏@MisfitRightIn thank you for posting this and thank you for complaining to Starbucks. ❤️🌼🌷🌸💐👏👏 women and girls, need women like you.

I do not like gender neutral toilets. But if the have to be gender neutral, then individual cubicles (floor to ceiling) have to be on offer.

Urinals are not gender neutral.

As others have said, this is the gents with a different sign on it.

I know both sexed can leave toilets in a disgusting state but that isn’t the issue here.

If it is one person/one family then the people inside should lock the door. If The company aren’t making sure that that rule is observed, then they need to employ a toilet attendant or provide female only facilities.

Complain complain complain. Another instant of women and girls giving up safe single sex spaces to men.
If you hadn't been going in with your Dd and thought it was empty as a man walked out, she would have been alone in a room of men using urinals. I wouldn't have wanted my Dd to have to go in there at that age.

Findthetruth I think the issue was that it was meant to be one person at a time or one family and there were still people in there when OP opened the door. Not that they are expecting women to use a stall where a man is using a urinal outside. It could be solved by just having a lock (which there may have been but someone hadn’t locked the door). If you want single sex toilets, many cafes and restaurants will be out of bounds as they are too small to offer anything beyond single occupancy.

And no, of course women can’t be blamed for overflowing bins but the state of men’s toilets is also due to lack of frequent cleaning. Not that all men automatically piss and shit everywhere. But it’s a tired trope that women are all automatically hygienic whereas men are dirty. I cleaned holiday chalets as a student and let me shatter that myth. Women can be just as filthy and disgusting as men (the amount of times I saw used sanitary towels or tampons just strewn on the floor was shocking).

Jesus all this hate towards this poor woman. You are entirely justified to be upset OP. This is woman-hating bullshit. Not appropriate. Women need to shout out about this . Solidarity x

If you want single sex toilets, many cafes and restaurants will be out of bounds as they are too small to offer anything beyond single occupancy.

They are almost always a locked room with a toilet and no urinals (which always smell). Starbucks can not claim to be short of money to make this work better for customers. This is just a men's toilet with a unisex sign on the door.

This is not a gender neutral loo problem. It’s a labelling problem and also a cleaning problem.
I live in an area with many gender neutral loos. They are always Individual cubicles with regular toilet bowls. A urinal cannot be gender neutral. That was a mans toilet with an inaccurate sign on the door. And any loo used by men needs frequent cleaning as so many of them have appalling aim. Only cleaning floors and receptacles once a day will not be sufficient

You are entirely justified to be upset OP. This is woman-hating bullshit. Not appropriate. Women need to shout out about this . Solidarity

100% agree with this.

Looks like we are going to have to campaign for women’s single sex facilities. Like they had to at the turn of the 19th Century. What does that say about women’s rights at the moment?

They aren't gender neutral, they are mixed sex. Like all mixed sex space it becomes men's space.

It's okay for women and girls to have a few things for themselves. It's okay for us to get angry when we lose the few rights and protections we have. If you're okay with mixed sex space that's fine for you but many women and girls will be excluded. I thought excluding people was a bad thing?