Gender neutral toilet in Starbucks, and I’m livid

[MisfitRightIn]

I’m completely grossed out by something that happened last weekend. My 7yr DD and I went into what looked to be a brand new Starbucks, for a snack mid-3hr road trip. We live on the west coast US, for context.

Placed our order, then went to use the ladies room. There was no ladies room. The bathroom had a hand written sign saying GENDER NEUTRAL, ONE PERSON OR FAMILY AT A TIME. A man was leaving, and had left the door ajar. Pushing open the door, I see 2 other blokes using urinals, at which point I back out, whilst turning my daughter around so she doesn’t get an eyeful.

In the US, there aren’t double doors to bathrooms, and the urinals were on the left as the door opened right. Everything was out in the open in there.

We wait our turn, and once it’s clear, we go in and lock the door. There are 3 urinals in a row, and one stall, and the room smells like, well, a urinal. It seems like men are just using it like the gents, and this is the result.

I think I’m overreacting, I’m stressed leading up to the US election, and feeling fractious from lockdown, but WTF, it was utterly disgusting. We both took showers and changed clothes as soon as we arrived, as I was sure our shoes and jeans were gross. I’m still livid. Is this our future??? No ladies room and putting up with this shit?

That sounds gross. Not sure why women on here are acting like they'd be okay with that. You don't actually want to share a toilet with men, especially when you have your little girl with you. This sounds unsafe and unsanitary. Women had to campaign and fight to get public toilets so that we could participate in public life, and weren't restrained by the so-called "urinary leash". Now our toilets are being taken away and if we want to go, we have to share with men! Not being funny, but how many men want to share their toilets with us?

Poster A.....the toilets were disgusting

Poster B....oh you’ve obviously never been to the toilet in Sudan

I mean… why?

Whats the point?

misfit it sounds disgusting, like others say it sounds like a repurposed mens toilet, i know not everyone agrees but individual rooms are my preference, i also prefer them labelled for both men and women

You don't actually want to share a toilet with men, especially when you have your little girl with you

Ffs nobody has to. The OP doesn’t have to. Some men didn’t lock to door when using it so she caught a glimpse when opening the door. At no stage was she sharing the toilet with men. The toilet just happened to have urinals in it but was intended for single/family use.

@ivykaty44

Don't ever go to France as its common over there to have the loo situated that you have to pass the urinals to gain access to the cubicle

europeans are much more liberal though, they have beaches where adults sunbath nude

Yep French toilets are disgusting, I used to refuse to use them when I was a little girl on holiday. What's your point?

I agree that set up is awful and ripe for sexual assaults.

The smell alone from a man's public toilet is bad yet having to share one with various men. I avoid public toilets whenever I can.

Yes women can also be dirty but standing up means it can and does go anywhere. I select the cleanest toilet when using the women's toilets.

Which highlighted the fact that men just don't lock the doors. Its been a problem in several work places on MN and even made the news that signs had ti be put up in i order to encourage men to use the locks so no one walked in on them.

If they had locked the door as they were supposed to then it wouldn't be an issue.

@Whatwouldscullydo

Which highlighted the fact that men just don't lock the doors. Its been a problem in several work places on MN and even made the news that signs had ti be put up in i order to encourage men to use the locks so no one walked in on them.

If they had locked the door as they were supposed to then it wouldn't be an issue.

Exactly this.

When we went to france (a few times) most toilets were fine

The service stations seemed to be the ones where you had to walk past the urinals (probably loads of toilets like them in france but these were the only ones we saw

When we went to Brighton recently we went to a very nice restaurant where the ladies door was directly across from the gents, both doors were wedged open so as you came out of the ladies you couldnt help but see men using the urinals

I had to backtrack with dd...not because i was worried that shed see the back of a random man weeing, but because it was her brother and i couldnt work out which teenager would be more mortified

op

Honestly no ones ok with sending their dds to a multi use unisex toilet. Just look on the changing room threads where they openly confess their ten and eleven year old sons and in one case even 17 , are taken in to the womens with them.

Truth is our teen girls are stuck not being able to go out if single sex toilets disappear.

No one really expects to have to follow NT 14 year olds to the bathroom ffa

Yep French toilets are disgusting, I used to refuse to use them when I was a little girl on holiday. What's your point?

You mustn’t have needed to go that desperately if you ‘refused’.

The toilet just happened to have urinals in it but was intended for single/family use.

I'm sorry but no. Toilets for 'family use' should not have a row of urinals in and be covered in piss. It's clear that this is a de facto men's toilet and women and girls are not provided for. It's unfair and also totally disgusting.

@LolalovesLondon

Yep French toilets are disgusting, I used to refuse to use them when I was a little girl on holiday. What's your point?

You mustn’t have needed to go that desperately if you ‘refused’.

I'm not sure what your point is?

You mustn’t have needed to go that desperately if you ‘refused’.

Fucking hell, the compassion on this thread is overwhelming. Why should the only choices for girls be either stay home, hold it in, or take your chances with the grown men in the piss-stinking urinals? Can we really not imagine anything better?

That Starbucks set up sounds awful but what's more shocking to me is so many posters claiming not to have a problem with it. Mind well and truly boggled!

You mustn’t have needed to go that desperately if you ‘refused’

Girls are getting UTIs trying to avoid using gender neutral aka mixed sex toilets at school.

Hardly something to aspire to is it..bullying girls into having to use them

@Whatwouldscullydo

You mustn’t have needed to go that desperately if you ‘refused’

Girls are getting UTIs trying to avoid using gender neutral aka mixed sex toilets at school.

Hardly something to aspire to is it..bullying girls into having to use them

It also suggests that the poster isn't aware that girls and women can hold urine in for some time, to their own detriment, esp when they feel uncomfortable about going.

Complain. That sounds hideous

I'm sorry but no. Toilets for 'family use' should not have a row of urinals in and be covered in piss. It's clear that this is a de facto men's toilet and women and girls are not provided for. It's unfair and also totally disgusting.

No toilets should be covered in piss. However I disagree that there’s no provision for women and girls here because there’s the same provision as there is in most Starbucks, it’s just what’s in the toilet room that is a potential issue (for some). Who knows why they haven’t removed the urinals in this one. Maybe it’s because it’s easier to clean and there’s actually less chance of piss on the floor if a man uses a urinal rather than a toilet bowl. Who knows, but the way some posters are twisting this into something it’s really not (little girls being forced to pee next to men using urinals) is ludicrous.

I live in France, I still send dh into the toilet first to check it out if we go somewhere new.
I once had to walk past a phone on the wall next to two urinals before getting to the cubicle.

Most French toilets are pretty gross.

The strangest thing is it's considered bad manners to use a hosts toilet in France.
My Brit friends often use our toilet and I will use theirs.
If we visit our French neighbours we never ask to use their toilet. Fortunately so far I've managed to wait.
I've had my French neighbours round for 5 hours before and they've never used our toilet.

This is probably why you see French men peeing at the side of the road.

This is a mixed bag, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am drafting an email and I’ll look up where to send it tomorrow (I’m PST).

I expected some questions about our travel, but this thread is full of surprises.

That Starbucks set up sounds awful but what's more shocking to me is so many posters claiming not to have a problem with it. Mind well and truly boggled!

I wouldn’t have a problem with the fact that there happens to be a urinal in a locked toilet room because I would be on my own in there and nobody else would be using the urinal. I would have a problem if the toilets were unclean, as I would with any sort of toilet. But why would the mere presence of a urinal be such an issue if I can lock the door and nobody can come in to use the urinal?

It's because they've put men's needs first reality, something numerous posters on this thread seem really comfortable with

It's because they've put men's needs first reality, something numerous posters on this thread seem really comfortable with

How? By just having the urinal in there? Would it be better if they just had the one toilet and removed the urinal completely? They might argue that that would be more unhygienic because men would need to use the bowl. Either way, they probably won’t provide a separate toilet room, given that it’s London and space is at a premium.

agree queen and scully

It's regressed back to the urinary leash of 1851 (in UK at least) when public toilets were just for men. It was called the ‘urinary leash’ as women could only go so far as their bladders would allow them. the Ladies Sanitary Association campaigned for toilets. women’s toilets set back for several years as men opposed the women’s toilets being situated next to the men’s. women’s toilets were deliberately sabotaged. After the first world war, some employers did not want to install women’s toilets as they believed that women were stealing men’s employment.

Today, the politics of women’s toilets continues. UNESCO recommends single-sex toilets in order to boost women’s access to education

www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/History-of-Womens-Public-Toilets-in-Britain/

@MisfitRightIn

This is a mixed bag, and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am drafting an email and I’ll look up where to send it tomorrow (I’m PST).

I expected some questions about our travel, but this thread is full of surprises.

Toilet provision Model letter womansplaceuk.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/WPUK-toilet-provision-model-letter-.pdf