Gender neutral toilet in Starbucks, and I’m livid

[MisfitRightIn]

I’m completely grossed out by something that happened last weekend. My 7yr DD and I went into what looked to be a brand new Starbucks, for a snack mid-3hr road trip. We live on the west coast US, for context.

Placed our order, then went to use the ladies room. There was no ladies room. The bathroom had a hand written sign saying GENDER NEUTRAL, ONE PERSON OR FAMILY AT A TIME. A man was leaving, and had left the door ajar. Pushing open the door, I see 2 other blokes using urinals, at which point I back out, whilst turning my daughter around so she doesn’t get an eyeful.

In the US, there aren’t double doors to bathrooms, and the urinals were on the left as the door opened right. Everything was out in the open in there.

We wait our turn, and once it’s clear, we go in and lock the door. There are 3 urinals in a row, and one stall, and the room smells like, well, a urinal. It seems like men are just using it like the gents, and this is the result.

I think I’m overreacting, I’m stressed leading up to the US election, and feeling fractious from lockdown, but WTF, it was utterly disgusting. We both took showers and changed clothes as soon as we arrived, as I was sure our shoes and jeans were gross. I’m still livid. Is this our future??? No ladies room and putting up with this shit?

was meant to be one person at a time or one family and there were still people in there when OP opened the door

That means they have the lock on the wrong door. It should be the one which divides individual use from general access.

@TheTamingOfTheresa

Jesus all this hate towards this poor woman. You are entirely justified to be upset OP. This is woman-hating bullshit. Not appropriate. Women need to shout out about this . Solidarity x

It seems to chime with the frustration that some posters on these boards feel that women have anything for themselves and indeed if they do they are 'privileged'. Think about the Sudan you selfish women and count yourselves lucky that your provision is being rolled back, it could be much worse. Seriously, how did we get here?

Jesus all this hate towards this poor woman. You are entirely justified to be upset OP

I know . Its like everything else "women do it to" and people get defensive you are calling their husbands rapists cos you want women only. Being safe to pee next to little girls is now being used as some badge of honor and validation for everyone husbands and sons rather than the focus that this just doesn't work fir women.

I went to a restraunt for my birthday witg a unisex toilet. Up two flights of stairs in a back area where no one would see or hear you one fairly small room with 4 ladies ones on one side and three mens on the other. Yes they were clean yes they were self contained units but in the 2 mins I was there with my dds , 2 lots of men came in , neither locked the door. Both pushed the door that hadn't been locked to discover a man already in there and if my dd had come out at that moment shed have seen them.

Neither of them washed their hands as they weren't in there long enough and their hands weren't wet ( drier didnt go on either)

The floor to ceiling stalls actually felt quite unsafe as you could easily he shoved in one and no one would have known.

Dp couldn't figure out why I wouldn't let dds go themselves. Up 2 flights if darkened stairs to a unisex toilet ...

These are not gender-neutral toilets.

They are mens toilets that children (female and male) and women are expected to use.

In the UK in central London basically ALL Starbucks have one disabled accessible gender neutral toilet with one door. Ie individual use.

These are without fail horrendous, urine everywhere crusted in dirt/filth, and used only in the most dire of emergencies.

It's a key reason I hate Starbucks and generally avoid their brand.

That and their latest bullshit TV advert

Did you take pictures? I'd air them on social media....along with pictures of actual gender neutral toilets.

This is such a weird thread. OP is absolutely in the right. I can't believe there are women here pretending they would be fine with having to walk past a row of men with their tackle out using the urinals. No woman I know would be. For that matter, neither would any man I know - men like privacy when they're peeing too.

I say that as someone v laid back about privacy - used to do a lot of outdoors stuff in mixed groups. I still wouldn't like a setup like the one described.

I am inclined to think there may be a deliberate influx of early hours/late night posters trying to prove a point.

(There used to be a joke riddle/puzzle when I was a student about a 5 stall urinal and where you stood if you were the only man there, if you went in and there was one man, or two, or... None of the women had a clue, whereas the positioning elicited universal consensus from the men, as if there were strong, unspoken social rules. It turned out to be a balance between privacy - ideally men don't want to pee right next to another man, avoiding sexual assault - so you'd never take the end stall in an empty toiled because this could leave you cornered, and avoiding being accused of cottaging - so you wouldn't form a "pair" if you could help it. Anthropologically fascinating.)

I honestly don't think most decent men begrudge women having single sex facilities. I had to do a pit stop during half term and at the services the women's loo & disabled toilets were out of order. We had to use the men's which had two urinals and a cubicle and absolutely stank. A man leaving the loo apologised to me that I had to use it and offered to complain to the manager, a man who joined the queue behind us also said he felt bad and offered to guard the main door so that I could use the cubicle inside with two kids without men coming in to use the urinals. It'a really simple - either you see that women should have privacy, dignity and toilets suitable to their needs or you don't much care for women at all. Argue that the men's should be better and that there should be a unisex alternative by all means, but this Starbucks compromise where women are effectively forced to use the men's (gender neutral whatevs) puts male people first.

So did the door to the whole thing lock, Op?

In which case it's just unfortunate the the urinal users hadn't locked the door.

That and the fact that it wasn't regularly cleaned.

But women's toilets have piss on the floor or seat and often messy

Thanks again for the support.and for the naysayers I’ll reply to a few points.

-Bootcut jeans touch the floor when using facilities. Also, possibly the bum part of the jeans may also have touched the toilet. Grim, and I wasn’t about to spend the rest of our day feeling gross so we changed our clothes after traveling. The shower was my personal preference after traveling and using this facility.
-I wiped the toilet seat with TP, then my DD sat on the seat which I wouldn’t call clean from a tissue wipe down, I didn’t sit my DD in wee on a seat.
-This particular Starbucks has nothing whatsoever to do with any developing nation, not sure how we got there.

This is such a weird thread. OP is absolutely in the right. I can't believe there are women here pretending they would be fine with having to walk past a row of men with their tackle out using the urinals. No woman I know would be. For that matter, neither would any man I know - men like privacy when they're peeing too.

In that case I have misunderstood the set up. Because from what the OP has written, that is not the case here. The sign said one at a time or one family at a time and there was a toilet cubicle and urinals in the room. Unfortunately there wasn’t a proper lock or it wasn’t being used when OP opened the door but I don’t think it was ever the case that people who wanted to use the toilet would have to walk past men using urinals. OP didn’t walk past them either- she waited until they had finished and then went in. Obviously I don’t think walking past men using urinals to get to a single cubicle is okay for women.

However, I do think it’s okay to use single occupancy toilets and that these can be used by both sexes and that they should be cleaned regularly.

@BoomBoomsCousin

Given the sign on the door restricting use to one person or family unit I don’t think it was Starbuck’s intention to have you walking in on men using the urinal.

I’ve never seen this in a Starbucks on the West Coast, it’s always single room, accessible facilities for anyone. It sounds like, with Covid, they’ve tried to turn larger facilities into similar single rooms but the customers have not cooperated.

It’s a surprise to catch men peeing when you expect an empty loo but the washing clothes and having a shower sounds barmy.

Sure does. Mind you America's not a sane place

Yes, the main door locks. I locked it once all the men had left and it was our turn. I wasn’t going to chance coming out of the stall to see the urinals in use again.

The way I see it, is that by default, men were using it as they would a gents toilet. Not one person or one family at a time. And when we picked up our order, as we were leaving I saw the door ajar and more than one man going in.

Agree with those saying that unisex toilets in a small coffee shop are pretty much ubiquitous and I don't have a problem with them as (in my UK experience) they are always single units with lockable doors, maybe a couple of them. To deliberately accommodate open urinals in a unisex bathroom with no guards around them, and in a new-build facility, beggars belief. Who would want to go in there after making that mistake the first time?? Only men: therefore Starbucks (they of the Mermaid biscuits!) have failed to provide facilities that at least 50% of their customers can use.

I initially thought you were overreacting (I've used the mens' loos once or twice, either because I was fed up with a long queue for the women's or, um as a drunken student, and have never felt the need to SHOWER afterwards) but I think this needs addressing and I would definitely be writing a stinky letter both to the manager of that facility and to the CEO.

America has gigantic gaps under the toilet stalls which I find weird. I think using toilet facilities in another country is always a bit disconcerting if you’re not used to it. Same with eg squat toilets in France or Greek toilets where you can’t flush paper.

But the showering and changing clothes is OTT because of all the germs you and your clothes will come into contact with daily. You probably stood in copious amounts of dog and human piss on the street on your way to and from Starbucks. Carrying anti-bac wipes and gel is a lifesaver and no showers needed.

I guess they could take the urinals out of the room but it’s probably handy if there’s a family as it allows more than one person to go to the loo at the same time and avoids a long queue. But the biggest problem here is people not locking the door. Some people are choosing to interpret it in a different way and I’m not sure why.

This is such a weird thread. OP is absolutely in the right. I can't believe there are women here pretending they would be fine with having to walk past a row of men with their tackle out using the urinals. No woman I know would be. For that matter, neither would any man I know - men like privacy when they're peeing too.

Nobody is being forced to walk past a row of men using the urinals in this particular case.

Wait until the room is vacant, enter the room, lock the door behind you.

In the U.K. that wouldn’t fly for a gender neutral toilet. Gender neutral toilets here have fully lockable / enclosed cubicles and no urinals. There would be no danger of seeing man peeing in urinals.

The issue isn’t specifically that it’s gender neutral, it’s that it’s a bad layout which clearly doesn’t work. I wouldn’t have been happy about it either and I usually have no beef with gender neutral toilets.

Our shoes and jeans had been on a wee covered floor, the seat was equally vile that we used (I hovered but DD tried that but ended up sat on it, barf).

Why were your jeans on the floor?
Why didn't you wipe the seat?

First time in a public toilet??

@ThistleWitch

Our shoes and jeans had been on a wee covered floor, the seat was equally vile that we used (I hovered but DD tried that but ended up sat on it, barf).

Why were your jeans on the floor?
Why didn't you wipe the seat?

First time in a public toilet??

I’ve answered this in a previous post, just scroll back.

"The way I see it, is that by default, men were using it as they would a gents toilet."

Well I can't see too much of a problem with that tbh.

It didn't stop you using it as you wished to.

Don't ever go to France as its common over there to have the loo situated that you have to pass the urinals to gain access to the cubicle

europeans are much more liberal though, they have beaches where adults sunbath nude

There was absolutely no thought for 50 per cent of the population when this layout was created. Plus ca change.

Starbucks have made a men’s look into a gender neutral.

People don’t respect the signs.

Men use urinals like urinals.