Gender neutral toilet in Starbucks, and I’m livid

[MisfitRightIn]

I’m completely grossed out by something that happened last weekend. My 7yr DD and I went into what looked to be a brand new Starbucks, for a snack mid-3hr road trip. We live on the west coast US, for context.

Placed our order, then went to use the ladies room. There was no ladies room. The bathroom had a hand written sign saying GENDER NEUTRAL, ONE PERSON OR FAMILY AT A TIME. A man was leaving, and had left the door ajar. Pushing open the door, I see 2 other blokes using urinals, at which point I back out, whilst turning my daughter around so she doesn’t get an eyeful.

In the US, there aren’t double doors to bathrooms, and the urinals were on the left as the door opened right. Everything was out in the open in there.

We wait our turn, and once it’s clear, we go in and lock the door. There are 3 urinals in a row, and one stall, and the room smells like, well, a urinal. It seems like men are just using it like the gents, and this is the result.

I think I’m overreacting, I’m stressed leading up to the US election, and feeling fractious from lockdown, but WTF, it was utterly disgusting. We both took showers and changed clothes as soon as we arrived, as I was sure our shoes and jeans were gross. I’m still livid. Is this our future??? No ladies room and putting up with this shit?

It's exactly that FindTheTruth

*UNESCO recommends single-sex toilets in order to boost women’s access to education

www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/History-of-Womens-Public-Toilets-in-Britain/*

It's a no brainier really. It's only in this black is white, woolly gender ideology driven, post modern world that we're being asked to understand that the worst scenario is the most acceptable.

FindTheTruth thanks, that’s so helpful.

Haven't we had those urinals at shows and festivals (the star shaped ones) for years that blokes just face into and take a pee. They don't have doors but you can't actually see anything except the back of the man who is fully clothed. Sorry I struggle to get too worked up about this. Although I fully accept men's (or upright weeers toilets as we can use a shewee (who's sales have increased 700% this year) to use them too), toilets must be very efficient as they don't need a cubical to wee. And at least with urinals it stops them pissing on the seat. In parts of Europe gender neutral toilets are common especially in small establishments.

You need to complain each time you find an unclean toilet. Mention it to the staff "just to let you know, there's urine all over the floor in the toilet/ toilet really stink" and maybe write a review on trip advisor type sites.

I've never seen gender neutral toilets that aren't fully seperate cubicles, often including basins. It's a pain in my opinion mainly because then both men and women take longer to preen themselves in front of the mirror, chill out a bit while they put lipstick on etc. compared to a traditional layout with communal basins. So queues get really long. Apart from that they don't bother me. But the layout you are suggesting is inappropriate, no one wants to see someone else of the opposite gender relieving themselves.

Why didn't you wipe the seat? (trans. women you must clean up after men.)

Give me a fucking break. What is wrong with some me of the contributors here?

@Porridgeoat

I’d feel unclean. Blokes loos are a state

This with bells on.

A man was using the 'Ladies' in a City Library, England..He had the cubicle door open, merrily peeing away..It was disconcerting.

Men's lavatories are gross according to men I know. Pee sprays everywhere, esp with the uncircumcised. {This is what they have said}

Unisex toilets are awful. Even separate cubicles. Hate the thought of going into a space and passing a man coming out or using a cubicle with a man using one next door at the same time. I expect most men don't like it either. Our rights are being eroded. We should boycott companies that do not provide safe facilities for us - small companies without space to put large toilet facilities excepted. Then a one in one out facility like in a house has to be acceptable.

I wish people on this board at least would stop saying "gender neutral". There's no such thing as "gender neutral". The correct term is mixed-sex. Gender neutral is a euphemism to make it sound more acceptable to women. But it is not acceptable, because of:

5) Urine splashing behaviour of some men: Some men do not properly control their genitals when having a wee. using their phone, or spitting can also lead to urine droplets finding their way to the floor

I believe most men have splashback, even when they're careful, because:

6) Men wee while standing: which can lead to splashbacks and droplets on the floor.

In Germany, a lot of wives rebel against this because the men don't clean up after themselves, neither the seat or the floor. They are told (by their wives) to sit to pee, and some do. Many German mothers train their sons to sit to pee. My son had a German child-minder when he was small. She had a little boy of her own and she trained them both to pee in sitting. I didn't know it, but I recently discovered that my son, now 35, still sits to pee. He often complains about the state of men's loos.

Even if a man is careful, there is spray which lands on the floor and leaves a scum on toilet tiles, which most never ever clean themselves.
If we don't complain and boycott such toilets, nothing will change. It's obviously worse in the USA.

As mners have said upthread, this was a men's loo which women could enter.

I expect most men don't like it either

My husband hates them with a passion. He always comes out fuming about the lack of urinals and wee everywhere.

It sounds like there is a reason gents toilets have evolved to have both a loo and urinals.

@Malahaha

I wish people on this board at least would stop saying "gender neutral". There's no such thing as "gender neutral". The correct term is mixed-sex. Gender neutral is a euphemism to make it sound more acceptable to women. But it is not acceptable, because of:

5) Urine splashing behaviour of some men: Some men do not properly control their genitals when having a wee. using their phone, or spitting can also lead to urine droplets finding their way to the floor

I believe most men have splashback, even when they're careful, because:

6) Men wee while standing: which can lead to splashbacks and droplets on the floor.

In Germany, a lot of wives rebel against this because the men don't clean up after themselves, neither the seat or the floor. They are told (by their wives) to sit to pee, and some do. Many German mothers train their sons to sit to pee. My son had a German child-minder when he was small. She had a little boy of her own and she trained them both to pee in sitting. I didn't know it, but I recently discovered that my son, now 35, still sits to pee. He often complains about the state of men's loos.

Even if a man is careful, there is spray which lands on the floor and leaves a scum on toilet tiles, which most never ever clean themselves.
If we don't complain and boycott such toilets, nothing will change. It's obviously worse in the USA.

As mners have said upthread, this was a men's loo which women could enter.

This post has everything.

-Correct terminology to use (I’ve been brained washed into thinking gender neutral is a thing, when of course it should be mixed sex.
-Breakdown of toilet vs urinal splashing.
-And a terrific telling of German women teaching boys to sit to wee.I’m in awe.

Well if it's a single loo I'm not sure why it needs so many urinals. Surely one toilet is fine and then there wouldn't be these issues

Is claiming you don't mind urinating men and piss on the floor the latest cool girl thing?

That sounds like a men's toilet, op. I'm sorry you've had a hard time from some posters and I hope you complain.

This is such a weird thread. OP is absolutely in the right. I can't believe there are women here pretending they would be fine with having to walk past a row of men with their tackle out using the urinals. No woman I know would be. For that matter, neither would any man I know - men like privacy when they're peeing too.

Right! I seriously, literally had to check whether I was on an AIBU thread or not. Did we have an invasion of uni students or what?

A man who lays wooden floors said his nightmare is having to remove ''Piss reeking old carpet in lavatories'' prior top laying new flooring.

SIT, don't spray.

An old male neighbour we had as kids had a ''brown'' outdoor loo.......I thought it was ''rusty water''.....but no...It must have been poo/wee stains.

I can't bear to use tea-stained mugs as they remind me of this.

In that case I have misunderstood the set up. Because from what the OP has written, that is not the case here. The sign said one at a time or one family at a time and there was a toilet cubicle and urinals in the room. Unfortunately there wasn’t a proper lock or it wasn’t being used when OP opened the door but I don’t think it was ever the case that people who wanted to use the toilet would have to walk past men using urinals. OP didn’t walk past them either- she waited until they had finished and then went in. Obviously I don’t think walking past men using urinals to get to a single cubicle is okay for women.

It was set up as a men's room, despite the sign on the door. Otherwise, why more than one urinal? Surely a "family" means adults with children, not two men. If two men of a family want to use the urinal, surely one would wait for the other to finish, if it was "one person at a time". The fact that the room had several urinals means that it was set up for many men at once.

Is claiming you don't mind urinating men and piss on the floor the latest cool girl thing?

It would seem so.

If it was mixed sex, why was it simply laid out as a men's room? Willies-a-wagging on display at urinals in a common open area.

Secondly, are people here really trying to attribute some sort of blame on the op because the bottom of their trousers soaked up the piss which was on the ground of the 'gender neutral' (sic) toilet? It may have come as a surprise to some that women have to lower their trousers to pee.

Why should men just arbitrarily pee around them in a supposedly mixed sex toilet while women are at fault if they don't want their clothes to be drenched in others pee?

For that matter, neither would any man I know - men like privacy when they're peeing too.

I find it hard to believe that most men care a jot about privacy from other men when they pee. If they did, gents loos wouldn't be designed/built (by men mainly) with rows of urinals.They are conditioned to pee in company from an early age.

I stand corrected @malahaha. And bravo by the way.

Due to our workplace, we had a mixed sex toilet, with a lock. No problems at all.

Until my bully decided that one of his many forms of getting at me, was to urinate over the seat and floor instead of the bowl. Not just that either. You get my drift.

And I had no option but to clean it (isolated location/long shift) if I wanted to use it.

The bosses went ostrich (all men). Their solution? We will pay you to come in 15 minutes earlier for cleaning..

I despise mixed sex facilities with a passion but understand it is the only option sometimes.

So it is on companies to do checks that facilities are kept clean and are used properly.

Unless of course they want us to wear crinolines and pee where we stand?

Gender neutral is fine in a proper setup and I have no issues with them in general if space is an issue, for example.
It allows fathers to take young girls to public toilets which can often be an issue for men travelling with young children.
However the situation the OP described is not okay.
Can any poster here honestly say that they would be happy to allow older children or teenagers to use these toilets? Would they want a 12 year old girl walking into these toilets?
Starbucks can afford to provide clean and safe facilities to its customers. I can't see why people are defending them.

Presumably it was laid out as a men’s room because it was supposed to be for only one person or family at a time as per the sign?

(Which was ignored)

Don't ever go to France as its common over there to have the loo situated that you have to pass the urinals to gain access to the cubicle

That's a myth. I've been to France several times, lived there for a year, and never encountered this. At the most, I remember once at a motorway service station there was a long queue for the ladies, so a staff member came along and ushered a whole group of women over to the men's.

europeans are much more liberal though, they have beaches where adults sunbath nude
The FKK beaches in Germany and Austria are private, with warning signs so that others who don't want to see naked bodies know where they are going. Naturists there are very discreet. Our next door neighbours in Germany were naturists and they never ever walked around nude when we went to visit. It's considered private, and they don't go on about themselves being so very free and liberal and calling other Germans prudish. I only see this by people like you.

I don't believe naturist beaches are very common in other European countries.

@MisfitRightIn

I’m completely grossed out by something that happened last weekend. My 7yr DD and I went into what looked to be a brand new Starbucks, for a snack mid-3hr road trip. We live on the west coast US, for context.

Placed our order, then went to use the ladies room. There was no ladies room. The bathroom had a hand written sign saying GENDER NEUTRAL, ONE PERSON OR FAMILY AT A TIME. A man was leaving, and had left the door ajar. Pushing open the door, I see 2 other blokes using urinals, at which point I back out, whilst turning my daughter around so she doesn’t get an eyeful.

In the US, there aren’t double doors to bathrooms, and the urinals were on the left as the door opened right. Everything was out in the open in there.

We wait our turn, and once it’s clear, we go in and lock the door. There are 3 urinals in a row, and one stall, and the room smells like, well, a urinal. It seems like men are just using it like the gents, and this is the result.

I think I’m overreacting, I’m stressed leading up to the US election, and feeling fractious from lockdown, but WTF, it was utterly disgusting. We both took showers and changed clothes as soon as we arrived, as I was sure our shoes and jeans were gross. I’m still livid. Is this our future??? No ladies room and putting up with this shit?

I thought you were going to say it was a single toilet with sink that can be used for men, women (able bodied or disabled). However, if it’s a room with several toilets and urinals then it’s clearly a men’s toilets. I wouldn’t feel safe.