Gender neutral toilet in Starbucks, and I’m livid

[MisfitRightIn]

I’m completely grossed out by something that happened last weekend. My 7yr DD and I went into what looked to be a brand new Starbucks, for a snack mid-3hr road trip. We live on the west coast US, for context.

Placed our order, then went to use the ladies room. There was no ladies room. The bathroom had a hand written sign saying GENDER NEUTRAL, ONE PERSON OR FAMILY AT A TIME. A man was leaving, and had left the door ajar. Pushing open the door, I see 2 other blokes using urinals, at which point I back out, whilst turning my daughter around so she doesn’t get an eyeful.

In the US, there aren’t double doors to bathrooms, and the urinals were on the left as the door opened right. Everything was out in the open in there.

We wait our turn, and once it’s clear, we go in and lock the door. There are 3 urinals in a row, and one stall, and the room smells like, well, a urinal. It seems like men are just using it like the gents, and this is the result.

I think I’m overreacting, I’m stressed leading up to the US election, and feeling fractious from lockdown, but WTF, it was utterly disgusting. We both took showers and changed clothes as soon as we arrived, as I was sure our shoes and jeans were gross. I’m still livid. Is this our future??? No ladies room and putting up with this shit?

That's a myth. I've been to France several times, lived there for a year, and never encountered this. At the most, I remember once at a motorway service station there was a long queue for the ladies, so a staff member came along and ushered a whole group of women over to the men's.

Yes I've had that when the ladies' was out of action in the airport in Spain, and really desperately needed to go and wouldn't have another chance before the flight. They ushered us into the men's, and the men didn't appear best pleased about it!

No its definitely a problem with it being mixed.

If there's urinals then they will all be used . Men do not want to lose the speed and if there's more than one they will all be used do never will be single use.

And men don't lock the door . Even if there was one bloke in the cubical akd it was spotless there's a good chance op would have wasted in on him

Ots why it doesn't work for either.

Men want the urinals
Women want the privacy

OP, he left with a golden handshake would you believe?

Which is ironic really, given the mess he used to leave me...

I’m still bitter about things. (Naturally). But I’ve been told that any recourse about how the company handled things is over and I can’t appeal any more. Despite evidence of lying both to cover up ineptitude and management comments. (I must have misunderstood....)

And this from a supposedly progressive and progressively woke company.

The message was put out there. Despite comments to the contrary, women do not matter.

Oh and the Union response was ‘do you want to leave? You won’t have to put up with it any more and we can get you a ‘package’.

No. I want you to take the company to task for allowing it!!!

Worth the dues eh?

it happens in the UK too. I went on a course recently and found all the toilets marked as gender-neutral. When I left the stall, there was a man using the urinal that I hadn't seen on my way in. The outer door wasn't lockable.

OP, he left with a golden handshake would you believe?

Ew!

..I've heard of golden showers but still.

Many coffee shops have unisex toilets but they are fully enclosed straight onto the corridor and you lock the door, no urinals. I wouldn't like urinals in the open either

You should complain to Starbucks. It sounds like the franchise wasn’t following the spirit of their policy correctly. The gender neutral cubicle should only used by one person / family at a time - by putting in multiple urinals and making the door lockable they are putting themselves in a very tricky legal position should anyone be attacked in there. I would bet it’s on purpose to dissuade trans women from using the loos.

Call me old fashioned but I really do think this problem could be solved by by keeping men and women separate.

Wherever possible. Where it's not possible every effort should be made to protect the privacy and dignity of customers by having sealed unisex facilities. Men are perfectly capable of using toilets and it's clear that many women do not want to use mixed sex facilities with urinals in them. That's enough for me. I support other women. The notion that a multinational like Starbucks (which boosts its vast profits via tax avoidance) can't and shouldn't immediately pull its finger out to do better than this is laughable.

Tunisia has the cleanest public loos I’ve ever used. Hole in the ground to stand or squat over, and a hosepipe next to it to clean your bits and hands with running water after. No loo roll.

You want to try Ladies loos in Britain. Particularly as they’re used by children too. Wee all over the floor and seats. Loo paper up the walls. Sanitary or pregnancy test products discarded on the floor or overflowing out of the cubicle bins.

@HecatesCats

OP, there's no excuse for a multinational corporation (with a global net revenue of $26.51 billion in 2019) to be providing such poor quality facilities. I'm frankly astonished anyone on this thread is defending them.

Exactly. If our local independent coffee shop can manage to provide single, self contained, lockable spaces then sure as hell Starbucks can.

Oh FGS there have been gender neutral disabled toilets for years, nobody has this overwhelming reaction to those existing, or demands seperation based upon biological sex.

I agree that the outer door must be lockable. But other than that, it's the shop who need to ensure the cleanliness of the toilets.

I agree that the outer door must be lockable. But other than that, it's the shop who need to ensure the cleanliness of the toilets.

Well done PP, you've identified two serious issues that multinational corporation Starbucks needs to address ASAP. I'd suggest having a mixed sex facility with more than one urinal, for sharing (?!), is also a serious issue.

@chickenyhead

Oh FGS there have been gender neutral disabled toilets for years, nobody has this overwhelming reaction to those existing, or demands seperation based upon biological sex.

I agree that the outer door must be lockable. But other than that, it's the shop who need to ensure the cleanliness of the toilets.

Except if the men aren’t using the aforementioned lock then having one is pointless. Women and girls should not have to put up with accidentally walking in on men because they’re not considerate enough, (or maybe haven’t realised it’s not just for men because it looks awfully like it is) to lock the door!

A proper GN toilet does not have a stinking urinal in.

That's edging disgusting to expect women and girls to use

Men really need to start locking the doors. If common decency doesn’t persuade them, maybe a latch on the inside that closes by itself.

Men really need to start locking the doors. If common decency doesn’t persuade them, maybe a latch on the inside that closes by itself.

How would they (or anybody) get in in the first place?

Oh FGS there have been gender neutral disabled toilets for years..

Not at all comparable. But you know that.

Guess you have never used a public toilet in Mexico City, Cambodia or the Sudan?

What a stupid remark. I can't speak for Cambodia or the Sudan, but public toilets in Mexico City are clean and sex segregated thank you.

Bwlch yes I hadn’t really thought that through Some way of indicating it’s occupied...

@RealityNotEssentialism

It's because they've put men's needs first reality, something numerous posters on this thread seem really comfortable with

How? By just having the urinal in there? Would it be better if they just had the one toilet and removed the urinal completely? They might argue that that would be more unhygienic because men would need to use the bowl. Either way, they probably won’t provide a separate toilet room, given that it’s London and space is at a premium.

How they’ve put men’s need first is that there are 3 urinals and one stall, this would mean that up to 4 men could use it at one time but only one woman. The men seem oblivious that it is for women too and consequently are using it in the same way they would use a men only facility

@IwishNothingButTheBestForYou2

I don't know that at all. It is completely comparable.

The door had a lock. It should be used.

Guess you have never used a public toilet in Mexico City, Cambodia or the Sudan...

Current Mexican law guarantees single sex facilities.

I wouldn't have a problem with gender neutral if each one was a separate cubicle. But urinals! Clutches pearls.