Cross dress males to be allowed in women only gym sessions in Glasgow

[MrsSnippyPants]

Mentioned before, I know, but quite a punchy headline today
www.heraldscotland.com/news/17588777.cross-dress-males-to-be-allowed-in-women-only-gym-sessions-in-glasgow/?ref=twtrec

Does that mean I can declare that I identify as a man and lurk about in the men's changing rooms having a good old perve at the hot young guys?

Another bloody charity. On their website they clearly state
We will conduct equality impact assessments where applicable on new and revised services, policies and relevant budget options. These also include an assessment of impact on people living on low incomes as well as people in protected characteristic groups as designated in the Equality Act 2010.
So demand to see it.

I'm nowhere near there so I can't do it but if it happens in my area I will specifically ask for the hate crime form to fill in myself and describe the cock and balls in close proximity to my three year old daughter's face. If objecting to that makes me a criminal I'm cool with that.
We need to use the words because although it's a good headline it's ridiculous.

As usual, the comments are pretty much all against the change. Are the politicians ever going to cop on and stop trying to educate the peasants in wokethink?

Wait so trans only sessions are a-ok but single sex aren't?? Genuinely if anyone wants to protest this along the lines of Man Friday I will damn well do it.

Tunnocks. There are all sorts of reasons why women want to swim away from men.

(I swim fast but still find men swim selfishly.)

Body consciousness, which does not necessarily mean fat, is one. A lot of women feel uncomfortable in a swimming costume.

However I think it is fair to say that swimming is the perfect exercise for people who are unfit and/or overweight. Less pressure on the joints. And that people are overweight are often worried about wearing a swimming costume in a public swimming pool.

(I am basing this from experience of an overweight friend from a mother and toddler group who really wanted to take her child swimming. All sorts of barriers, from buying the costume in the first place to worrying about being stared at. For many women, womens only sessions feel more forgiving.)

Its the same old, same old.

Men dont have to justify why they want to be in womens spaces. Women instead seem to need to explain exactly why they want to retain existing sex segregation. For me certainly, wobbly bits and an elderly bod are one. With the discussion then loaded against them. My reasons are my reasons. If they are not acceptable I simply dont go.

And this is what will happen. Women will vote with their feet, leaving the confident and the cross dressers to enjoy their empty lanes. (Till the leisure centre closes through lack of custom, and NHS queues grow because people at risk stop exercising.)

I don’t really understand your last post. I was commenting on your idea that the non-Asian women who prefer women’s only swimming sessions are middle aged and wobbly. Like you I think there are many reasons why women prefer single sex and as we are supposed to encourage women into sport/exercise, this should be encouraged. I thought you were a bit dismissive in your post that’s all.

This an extract from a submission I sent to the NZ Government last year opposing the introduction of Self ID for the transgender community.

This is bad legislation. Women in our society need safe and protected spaces, and if this law passes they will lose them. If an obvious man enters a women's toilet and claims he has a right to be there because he 'self identifies' as a woman what is the legal right of a woman who asks him to leave because she is unsure of his intentions? Would she be arrested for a 'hate crime'? The problem is knowing that unscrupulous men could use the 'self-identify' provision as a Trojan Horse to attack women and girls in what should be protected spaces, such as toilets, women's refuges and hostels, women only swimming pools etc. Why should we women have the burden of second guessing the intentions of every man who demands entry into a space that should clearly be ours?

Thankfully vigorous opposition to the introduction of self ID forced the government to withdraw the Bill until proper discussion can take place on its implications for women's rights to sex segregated spaces under the Human Rights Acts.

The women of Glasgow have the perfect right to ask the same questions of Glasgow Life when it proposes allowing men entry to women only swimming sessions, and I hope they are given the courtesy of a hearing without being branded as transphobes.

I love swimming and swim well, quite fast (for a local pool adults swim session anyway)
I only ever swim crawl-head down and get on with it. I feel most uncomfortable when swimming breast stroke, and become aware of how on show my body is then-the swimming position obviously leaves my cleavage on view (it's ample) and the leg kick is of course quite exposing.
Swimming with men, makes me feel vulnerable so that I only ever front crawl. I'm a victim of sexual assault, as so so many women are-feeling vulnerable is normal, it's just so magnified in the pool environment. So the ladies only swim sessions are so important not just for women with my experiences but just for women.
Why can't pools just provide mixed sex sessions and single sex ones and be done with that. Oh because the TW feel uncomfortable swimming with men? Yeah funny that.

There is a case for offering transgender swim sessions if trans people are uncomfortable swimming with men. That wouldn’t be a popular solution I imagine.

Oh dear. What is Glasgow thinking? This is not going to go well.

It is going a bit far for the council to say it is a hate crime if women don't want someone with a penis in a women only session.

There are more practicing Muslims and Jews in the UK, whose access to participation in wider society is restricted by their need for or choice to use sex-segregated services, than there are trans people. Yet we do not oblige the whole of society to accommodate their religious requirements. Instead we set aside spaces and times to accommodate them. We ensure their safety and comfort through opening minds where change will not cause any harm to either party - accepting the burkini, for example, where swimming 'in clothes' would once have been banned.

Why is there this expectation that the whole of society should change to accommodate this tiny minority, with no consideration given to people's true needs in order to create an equitable, compassionate and tolerant society?

We will conduct equality impact assessments where applicable on new and revised services, policies and relevant budget options. These also include an assessment of impact on people living on low incomes as well as people in protected characteristic groups as designated in the Equality Act 2010.

You can make a request to see their equality impact assessment for this policy here:
www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/glasgow_life

I could do it, but it would make more sense for someone in the Glasgow area to do it.

I think a Man Friday revival could be rather effective.

The zeitgeist around all this has shifted since last year (not least due to the sterling efforts of the MF chaps!).

It's clear the general public is not on board with hairy blokes in floral swimmers in the women only sessions, & here there's not even a pretence at 'transition' - it's just men who occasionally like to wear laydee clothes.

Needs sunlight shone on this one!

Indeed JellySlice
Sport has spent decades trying to engage 'vulnerable' or 'marginalised' groups - in particular women from religious communities who often don't engage in sport or recreation. All this thrown aside and not any of the woke / politicians have noticed or commented.

How can the rights of a cross dressing man be of far more importance than all these other groups?

Show them JY’s girls’ bathroom selfie.

Ask them is this the kind of customer they want.

truthisa...

There are plenty of male Asian politicians in Glasgow.

I think they have noticed. Sadly I wonder if they don't mind that women in their community are deprived of a chance to engage in activities outside the home.

The common thread across all of this seems to be misogyny

People of Asian heritage are more likely to have diabetes than those of white - it's vital to get them moving.

Muslim women are not likely to go swimming where there are penises.

Glasgow population has significant health issues.

So, if you are Glasgwegian, of Asian descent and of the Muslim faith - Glasgow doesn't care about your health. Ot at least, doesn't care enough to encourage you to exercise - Johnny in his frilly knickers matters more.

Fuck that.

This is the point where as someone said, if the women's is going to be full of cross-dressing men, you might feel safer just going in the mens. At least there you know what you're getting!

I bet if all the women started doing that they'd change the policy back quick smart - like when Man Friday went to the men's swimming pond, and the police were called! (despite checking and clearing ahead with the pond management that they were obeying the rules)

It provides a range of definitions of those who may participate in such sessions, including people who have transitioned or are transitioning from one gender to another and people who were born “intersex” and people who reject gender definitions.

Above from article

So it’s just anybody. As anybody can reject gender definition s.

Thing is, we should all learn off by heart, the sections of the Equslity Act that allow us to make complaints over stuff like this.

I’m reasonably ok with unisex lavatories which are clearly marked as such and are properly designed.

I regularly spend time in another European country where saunas are mixed and the convention is nakedness in the sauna, and bathrobes elsewhere. However, even there, the changing rooms and lavatories are single sex and they also have designated single sex sessions. So wanting the sexes separated is not prudishness.

But I’m really not sure how I’d feel if walked into my gym changing room to find a Male to female person, who hadn’t had surgery - that is, still had observably male genitalia. At my gym, there are cubicles, but most women change by their lockers. It’s not a changing room where we walk around naked - people are pretty modest. But still ...

I think I’d find it difficult. Given that I have no control in that situation of how I might be non-consensually being forced to participate in someone else’s fantasy.

I might not be - such a person might be a TW just trying to get on with their life. But how would I know whether I’m safe or not?

It's such a white thing. There are way more white perverts than any other race.

If a white man wanders about a Muslim women's swim session with a hard on stroking his cock through a skimpy bikini I want that to be regarded as a RACE crime and not 'just' a hate crime (as clearly women matter less)

The women's swim sessions are full of women I assume are Muslim. The sessions are are really pleasant and well attended. What about these women's rights? They will absolutely stop attending and one of Glasgow's major health initiatives to engage these women in exercise will be wasted. Throwing one minority under a bus for a tiny handful. Have a genderless night Glasgow city council if you are so keen and stop shitting on our women folk! And Nicola sturgeon- your support is going down the tubes in Scotland at a rate of knots- get real and listen to your MSP's and female voters! Or lose.

It's such a white thing. There are way more white perverts than any other race.

Sorry to pick you up on this, but I don't think there are any clear racial or class patterns. It may be that middle class white men have more confidence and money. And that paedophilia or rape/sexual abuse is less reported in some countries. The consistent thing seems to be that it can happen anywhere. Which is why women need single sex spaces. Much easier if we were able to profile men that might be dodgy.

February 2018:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3160791-adult-males-can-now-shower-with-girls-at-swimming-pools

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3160512-Engaging-trans-people-in-swimming-aka-penises-are-ok-in-the-ladys-changing-rooms-but-transmen-must-cover-their-breasts

Origins of #ManFriday
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3176098-I-am-about-to-ID-as-a-man

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3199430-I-am-about-to-self-ID-as-a-man-the-update

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3204207-Swim-England-update