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I am about to self-ID as a man - the update!

(145 Posts)
YesItsADebate Tue 20-Mar-18 10:57:04

I have received a written response from the swimming pool that I originally approached as a self-ID man (original thread here), dated last Friday.

Dear […]
We have fully considered your request, taking into account the legal obligations to those who are stating that they are transsexual and our local and national rules and duties to consider your request to join our men only swimming group.

Firstly, as an organisation we do not yet have specific policies in place and are relying on national equality legislation and considered legal challenges. However we will now be looking to put in place fully thought out policies in relation to transsexuals and our leisure facilities, including swimming. We remain committed to the principles of equal opportunities for our customers and will consider all requests relating to transgender on a case by case basis, and in doing so balancing the needs of a particular customer against the reasonable expectations and needs of all other customers.

In relation to your specific request to join our men only swimming session, we feel we are within our rights at this time to turn down your request. We have discussed your own needs and position as to your gender recognition and have considered the object behind single-sex sessions. Our conclusion is that, as present, it would not be appropriate for you to join the men only swimming sessions. However, as per other national swimming association/leisure facilities we would be more than happy to have a transgender only swimming session if there was found to be a local need for such a session.

In relation to access to appropriate toilets, again this will need to be considered on a case by case basis. However, at this time with no specific policy in place we feel that the best option available would be to use the gender neutral toilet ie the accessible toilets.

We would ask that you respect our stated policy on swimming attire, which is that swimmers must wear clothing that is appropriate and modest.

Your Sincerely

[…]
Chief Executive

I would love to know what their objective definition of 'modest' is, but I hope that doesn't become the main point of discussion. I consider this to be a full-on, unmitigated win for women's rights, safety, privacy and dignity.

I will be responding to thank them, writing to my MP to give him the update and asking him to support them and to support #ManFriday in approaching Swim England to discuss.

athingthateveryoneneeds Tue 20-Mar-18 10:58:32

Very interesting. Very.

NoqontroI Tue 20-Mar-18 10:58:41

That's good.

BoreOfWhabylon Tue 20-Mar-18 10:59:16

Result!

ElenOfTheWays Tue 20-Mar-18 10:59:39

Ha! Got it in writing now. Well done. smile

QuiteLikely5 Tue 20-Mar-18 11:00:08

I think that’s s great response.

I quite like the idea of trans groups having their own things but then I suppose that could be seen as discrimination

McTufty Tue 20-Mar-18 11:00:18

Good response, well done OP.

Would they have said the same to a self ID transwoman wanting to join the women’s session?

OohMavis Tue 20-Mar-18 11:03:02

Their response would have been entirely different if you were a TIM. Because, boobies.

Sanderz Tue 20-Mar-18 11:03:37

Oh good! "Case by case" seems like a fair solution, I hope it catches on smile

Collidascope Tue 20-Mar-18 11:04:54

Well done, OP. Interesting they seem to be using transsexual and transgender interchangeably.

PurdysChocolate Tue 20-Mar-18 11:06:37

Great, well done OP. I think you are very brave to push the issue like this.

GrockleBocs Tue 20-Mar-18 11:08:43

A separate session? That's terribly TERFy of them smile

Datun Tue 20-Mar-18 11:08:47

Excellent. You showed up the policy, they tightened their rules, in favour of sex segregation. And using the equality act to support them.

Which is exactly what women have been asking for.

senua Tue 20-Mar-18 11:08:57

Oh good! "Case by case" seems like a fair solution.
It does not! I can imagine mtf is one case and ftm is another.

Have you considered offering to write their policy for them, OP?grin

ChiefClerkDrumknott Tue 20-Mar-18 11:09:39

Interesting response. Well done OP, you’re doing a great job

TERFragetteCity Tue 20-Mar-18 11:10:21

Brilliant.

IndominusRex Tue 20-Mar-18 11:12:14

Excellent!!!

PerfPower Tue 20-Mar-18 11:12:55

That's brilliant, we're finally hearing from people that don't think one trans persons feelings are more important than hundreds of other peoples feelings. Well done Amy and thank you.

Mumsnut Tue 20-Mar-18 11:13:18

Yep. It would be interesting to test the other side of the equation at his pool ...

SmurfOrTerf Tue 20-Mar-18 11:15:53

Well done.
I hope MP's are watching

Destinysdaughter Tue 20-Mar-18 11:16:43

A v sensible response from them. Well done and thanks for being so brave. 💜

Beerincomechampagnetastes Tue 20-Mar-18 11:17:03

starexcellent

olderthanyouthink Tue 20-Mar-18 11:17:22

Would it be different for a trans woman attending a women's session because (provided the bottoms fit) there wouldn't be private parts on show, I wonder?

Freshlylaidterf Tue 20-Mar-18 11:18:30

On the face of it seems positive . Although how is ' case by case' basis going to work practically ? I often think a response that includes these words is a bit of a get out.

CadyHeron Tue 20-Mar-18 11:19:03

Yep. It would be interesting to test the other side of the equation at his pool ...

that's what I was thinking! Would they have said that if a man had done it....

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