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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Cross dress males to be allowed in women only gym sessions in Glasgow

273 replies

MrsSnippyPants · 22/04/2019 08:56

Mentioned before, I know, but quite a punchy headline today
www.heraldscotland.com/news/17588777.cross-dress-males-to-be-allowed-in-women-only-gym-sessions-in-glasgow/?ref=twtrec

OP posts:
terryleather · 25/04/2019 14:16

Oh I know where my "real" body is...it appears to have been assigned to Monica Bellucci...

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 25/04/2019 14:19

Bigbeth are you feeling alright?

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 25/04/2019 14:21

I think that Isabella Rossellini got mine.

WeepingWillowWeepingWino · 25/04/2019 14:28

laughing like a drain that Glasgowlifeemployee thinks they can come on MN and reeducate us, and we'll all listen carefully and change our minds.

Like a drain, I tell you.

HumberElla · 25/04/2019 14:29

I can see myself inhabiting Noel Fielding.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 25/04/2019 14:31

Jillian Michaels. I mean she got assigned that body rather than working for it, right? And I was definitely first on the list for it

youllhavehadyourtea · 25/04/2019 17:34

Apparantly Glasgow Life were Advised by LEAP Sport when drawing up the guidlines.

Maybe GlasgowLifeEmployee could fill us in?

Actually I'd bet there was more than just one Glasgow Life employee on the boards...just sayin'. They are a big employer!

Popchyk · 25/04/2019 18:14

Just an update on the link on the first page about the Edinburgh University gym boss who suggested that a female client should be raped.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/edinburgh-university-gym-boss-accused-14444721

The man has now been sacked.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6958979/Edinburgh-University-gym-boss-sacked-offensive-rape-message-student-outrage.html

Brain made the comments before Christmas 2018, but was only sacked after the Daily Record article came out earlier this week.

Funny how these very long disciplinary procedures always come to a swift conclusion immediately after there is a negative story in the tabloids, eh? It suddenly becomes very important for institutions to act.

LordProfFekkoThePenguinPhD · 25/04/2019 18:34

And that’s why, kids, you should stay off the steroids... actually he looks a bit like Desperat Dan.

youllhavehadyourtea · 25/04/2019 21:54

Bump

Anyone know anything about LEAP Sport?

They advised Glasgow Life on their 'cross dressing' policy.

R0wantrees · 26/04/2019 00:25

Anyone know anything about LEAP Sport?
They advised Glasgow Life on their 'cross dressing' policy.

Website & board details here:
leapsports.org/about/leap-committee

Antibles · 26/04/2019 00:32

I could be wrong but I have the haziest memory of the Loughborough PhD students going to a conference that was something to do with LEAP.

SonicVersusGynaephobia · 26/04/2019 07:41

I think Glasgowlifeemployee is actually one of Glasgow City Council's army of "70+ in-house lawyers".

Michelleoftheresistance · 26/04/2019 11:06

Really? How embarrassing for them then that they've put something on a public website as an employee that is so unprofessional in its bias, name calling and bigoted attitude, and also misquotes and misunderstands UK law. Blush GLemployee, HQ will probably pull that post for you if you ask them.

TheChampagneGalop · 26/04/2019 16:49

Ahem

Cross dress males to be allowed in women only gym sessions in Glasgow
BetsyM00 · 28/04/2019 09:46

FWS have a a bit more info about LEAP Sport here:
forwomen.scot/28/04/2019/glasgow-life/

Not least that one of the board of trustees is a TW who is also a director of LGBT Youth (of the trans school guidance) and also advises Police Scotland and local authorities on trans issues.

R0wantrees · 28/04/2019 10:06

From thread discussing the Westminster Policy Forum event last year, 'Next Steps for Trans Equality'

Pratchet wrote, Fri 29-Jun-18 09:42:31
"Well they'll know it's over. Bex Stinson was asked how they got Scotland to cave so quickly and said it was because they had private conversation in private rooms with the people who provide services, not people who use them. I mean, that's how brazen and confident they were, to come out and say that and not think there's anything bad about it. That is over. Women are watching."

Bex Stinson is head of Stonewall's Trans Inclusion

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3268237-Westminster-Social-Policy-forum-today-Next-steps-for-transgender-Equality-WSPFEvents?pg=2

R0wantrees · 28/04/2019 10:13

Extract from account of TRA conference, 'We're Still Here' organised by Jane Fae last year:

TheHarpySings reported Thu 18-Oct-18
6) GETTING THE GRA WE WANT

This was a workshop with 3 experts sitting with groups and talking through activism. They were:

Helen Belcher (Lib Dems, Trans Media Watch)
James Morton (Scottish Transgender Alliance)
Alex Moore (GenderJam). Moore is from N Ireland.

James Morton gave some insight into tactics the TRAs will probably start using in England and Wales as they were successful in Scotland.

He said the TRAs need to build allies in mainstream women and children’s organisations so it looks like they care about them.

He also said what worked in Scotland's was a “constructive, friendly, innocent” tone when debating or in dialogue with the GC side. To be mindful about who is watching - essentially like what we do with the lurkers on the FWR board. To make the TRAs look like the reasonable side.

James also said that in dialect with elected officials, to clarify that the trans side aren’t silencing anyone but want to clarify the misconceptions being bandied around by GC feminists.

The Scottish GRA changes will probably be put forward in the 2019-2020 parliamentary year.

Belcher has been meeting with MPs and members of the House of Lords. Most of them don’t really understand the GRA and don’t have much time to think about it thanks to the Brexit FUBAR. “Education” of law makers is needed and that’s what Belcher is doing.

Apparently the TRAs lack the infrastructure they had in the 1990s and early 2000s so they need to think carefully and coordinate.

Belcher said to re-iterate to MPs that the EA2010 is not being affected and no one is losing any rights (wtf).

Apparently in terms of political support, the Tories are split about 50/50, Labour, Lib Dem's and SNP are all onside. The Greens were NOT mentioned.

The big fear on the TRA side is that this Government won’t survive long enough to get this through- again because Brexit.

According to Alex Moore, Arlene Foster of the DUP went to a Pink News event and didn’t seem to know much about this. In NI no one really cares about the trans issues because everyone is focused on same sex marriage and abortion.

Alex then moaned about the Together for Yes campaign’s transmisogyny and that the campaign completely erased the experiences of trans and NB people who need abortions. Alex would like a legal change of gender to be free of charge and as easy as changing your name.

Helen Belcher was annoyed at GC feminists using “emotive arguments” regards rape.

HB said that the pile ons pro self-ID MPs get from the GC side if they say something supportive of the trans side are not helping the GC cause. Maria Miller told Belcher that MPs got loads of abuse in the run up to marriage equality and that abusive messages, tweets from GC feminists will only harden MPs against the GC side.

HB also said something snide about “mouthy” female Labour MPs who speak before thinking on Twitter- especially on a Friday or Saturday night after they’ve had a few drinks.

Apparently the TRAs have civil service support and that the Stonewall report and Gov survey are strong bits of evidence they have which is helping them win arguments.

They are saying there is no risk to reforming the GRA and are asking MPs “what is the risk?”

In the group I was in they also talked about how changing your gender multiple times should be allowed and shouldn’t be seen as “bad intentions”.

James Morton talked about how they can get rid of “gender” markers on things like IT systems and places where it isn’t relevant- apparently GDPR might be able to help them here.

JM’s campaigning tips were to gain trust in the local community- and to approach moderate feminists, “correct misconceptions and forgive any ignorance they may have displayed”. They want to gain trust and make themselves likeable.

Apparently small acts like helping to campaign about period poverty or retweeting the local branch of Women’s Aid will make a difference and result in some reciprocation. They want to make it look like they care about Women's issues so they don’t appear threatening (continues)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3398737-We-re-Still-Here-Conference-8th-September-A-report-from-the-inside

R0wantrees · 28/04/2019 10:16

see also James Morton's comment at 'We're Still Here'

TheHarpySings wrote
4) Equalities Act

So… there was a kind of informal meeting during lunchtime about The Equalities Act which was being run by everyone’s favourite advocate for extreme porn, Jane Fae. Edward Lord turned up, straight from a meeting with the City of London Corp. PlEASE NOTE THAT FAE AND LORD DID NOT WANT THIS SECTION TWEETED. (continues)

Lord said that TW were entitled to the protected characteristic “Woman”- he said the Gov dept on woman and equalities has confirmed this. Apparently the brave and stunning vexatious litigator Giuliana Kendall has something to do with this being confirmed.

Edward Lord is worried about the 125 elected members of the London assembly or whatever the fuck Londoners have governing the city. Not all of them are onside. He is worried that all of this is going to be discussed at committee and that “terfs are going to protest”.

Jane Fae said that JF has been in contact w/ YHA and GirlGuiding. Fae is of the opinion that the law doesn’t distinguish gender and sex. They are not defined and parliament will not define them.

The TRAs are fully prepared to take local councils to court of they try to invoke EA2010 for reasons of sex. JF was nodding at Giuliana when JF said this.

James Morton (Scottish Trans Alliance) said to be “strategic about test cases to ensure strong case law”.

Edward Lord agreed. He also said that the City of London Corp city solicitor and the Chief Exec are “strong allies”.

Regards the consultation doc put out by the City of London Corp… Lord implied that they were going to go through the answers and cherry pick the the qualitative snapshots.

One of the Mermaids mums in attendance said the “banner of concerned mothers of vulnerable children shouldn’t be captured by bigots”. Lord is meeting officers about how data is presented and is “conscious of that line of argument”

Jane Fae said the GC side are spreading a myth of predatory males- which doesn’t happen (!!! Lolz Karen White). And also spreading the myth that that TW are paedophiles (Loz Karen White x2)." (continues)

scotsheather · 28/04/2019 13:33

Wonder how this applies to female swimming sessions. Some women of certain religions with very strict segregation rely on these, in some cases not even recognising post surgery transsexuals as women. Whatever your views on religions it needs clarity for those service users.

Tunnockswafer · 28/04/2019 13:36

How it applies according to the GL approach is if you identify as female you can attend anything reserved for women.

R0wantrees · 28/04/2019 14:35

Wonder how this applies to female swimming sessions. Some women of certain religions with very strict segregation rely on these, in some cases not even recognising post surgery transsexuals as women. Whatever your views on religions it needs clarity for those service users.

In the statement Glasgow Life confirms that one pool has two women only swim sessions but does not clarify their policy:
(extract)
"Contrary to reports, Glasgow Life does not run any ‘women only gym sessions’ – our gym sessions and classes are open to all, regardless of gender. Glasgow Life operates 11 swimming pools, with the vast majority of sessions open to everyone, regardless of gender. One pool, North Woodside, has two women only swimming sessions per week. Our venues provide a mix of changing room facilities. A significant proportion of our changing facilities are unisex and open to all, with secure, private cubicles. Where facilities have male and female changing facilities, private cubicles are provided, where possible. Our staff are happy to assist with any requests in regard to provision of private changing facilities. If anyone, at any time, feels unsure or uncomfortable in using our services, they should immediately contact a member of staff for assistance." (continues)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3568544-Response-from-Glasgow-Life-to-concerns-about-lack-of-single-sex-provision

I live in a small town & our local pool has a number of well-attended 'women-only' swim sessions. It seems Glasgow Life are not aware of the need / benefits for many women of offering this opportunity

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