Cross dress males to be allowed in women only gym sessions in Glasgow

[MrsSnippyPants]

Mentioned before, I know, but quite a punchy headline today
www.heraldscotland.com/news/17588777.cross-dress-males-to-be-allowed-in-women-only-gym-sessions-in-glasgow/?ref=twtrec

Oldcrone

Re your question on the date issue, this has only came to light because of the twitter thread from Scottish campaigner @scottish_women

twitter.com/scottish_women/status/1118577158136504320?s=21

@Glasgowlifeemployee

If you are really employed by Glasgow Life, have you checked that they are happy with you coming online and writing offensive messages to women who disagree with Glasgow Life's illegal policies?

If you are actually representing Glasgow Life, I suggest that you find a lawyer who understands the Equality Act and change your policy to comply with the law.

I mean ffs, Glasgowlifeemployee, the policy actually specifies cross dressers. Men who get aroused by making people treat them as women. In this case, women and girls who are in a state of undress.

It's awful.

Glasgowlifeemployee - so you know the difference between sex and gender? I suspect not.

Do your employers know that you are setting yourself up as a spokesperson?

employee You neatly summarised the issue, thanks:

"More often than not anyone who is going though procedures are not comfortable with there body so aren’t going to be flaunting it about. "

What do I do when it's the "not" time? And I'm standing there with my pubescent daughter and a man in a bikini with an erection comes out of the cubicle?

You and your employer are ludicrous and your and their attitude will lead to women and girls being hurt.

But, the local perverts love ya.

What do I do when it's the "not" time? And I'm standing there with my pubescent daughter and a man in a bikini with an erection comes out of the cubicle?

And Glasgowlifeemployee, in case you were under the impression that this scenario wouldn't be tolerated, show me where it states in your policy (or anywhere), that 'women' must never be aroused in the female changing room. Or men in the men's for that matter.

Allowing cross dressers into your changing rooms is also flying fairly close to the wind in relation to the sexual offences act.

This has nothing to do with trans people and Gender Dysphoria. Men who cross dress (a common paraphilia in males for sexual pleasure) are allowed to enter women’s spaces, according to your own policy. A space that women might reasonably expect to be private and a provision for their own sex.

Are you endorsing a policy that is likely to encourage sexual harassment and voyeurism in your workplace? If so that’s a very bold move Glasgowlife.

You might want to risk assess that.

Glasgowlifeemployee

This informed analysis by a school governor ExcelPope also applies to organisations such as gyms, swimming pools etc:

(extract)
"I spend a lot of time designing policies and procedures, and what I tell people is this:- Imagine a worst-case scenario occurs. There is an official investigation, where you’re asked “What did you do to prevent this happening?”. Now imagine what answer you’d like to be able to give to that question in that scenario – that’s the starting point for writing your policies.

In that vein, here’s a scenario.

You are the head-teacher of a secondary school, with pupils aged 11-18. A police officer arrives at the school and asks to speak to you. They have found a video on a porn site which shows the changing-rooms at your school, including a number of girls, who appear to be aged 13-15, in various states of undress. It has clearly been filmed with a concealed camera-phone.

The video has been taken down, but not before it had tens of thousands of views. The account that posted it has been traced to a student at the school who identifies themselves as trans and was, in accordance with the guidance, allowed to use the female changing rooms.

The police need a female member of staff to view the video with them, to identify the 20 or 30 teenage girls who appear in it, so that they and their parents can be informed that they have been victims of voyeurism.

What did you do to prevent this happening?

The answers that Twitter has thrown up so far don’t seem to be very good answers to that questions. Assertions that it could never happen, that nobody could or would fake being trans just to get access to female spaces, and a strong suggestion that simply asking the question is bigoted, or even “dangerous”.

There are around 2.2 million males aged 13-18 in the UK, no matter how much experience you have with children, with trans people, with trans-children, you cannot absolutely assert that none of them will abuse, or attempt to abuse, the guidance given in a manner that infringes of the rights of other students.

This isn’t about demonising all trans people, or suggesting that any given one of them would act in such a manner. This is about the risk presented by the guidance itself, whether that risk can be mitigated in a manner which is proportional to the potential seriousness of the outcome and whether the risk is, in part or in whole, outweighed by the risks of not implementing the guidance" (continues)

excelpope.wordpress.com/2019/02/28/the-unaskable-question/

Relevent recent case:
November 2018
'Yorkshire man jailed for filming teen girls as they got undressed in changing rooms and bathrooms'
(extract)
A man who took covert video footage of young women in a state of undress has been jailed for six months and placed on the sex offenders register.

Jonathan Thomas Watson, 21, from Harrogate, videoed one woman as she was getting changed in a cubicle at Knaresborough Swimming Pool.

York Crown Court heard that he placed his mobile phone on the top of the cubicle in a unisex changing room.

The woman, in her thirties, was unaware she was being filmed until she saw the phone perched on top of the cubicle, said prosecutor Matthew Collins.

Watson filmed six other females at a property in Knaresborough using similar covert means.

The teenagers were said to be distraught after discovering they had been secretly filmed while using a bathroom." (continues)

www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/latest/yorkshire-man-jailed-for-filming-teen-girls-as-they-got-undressed-in-changing-rooms-and-bathrooms-1-9451644

Are you endorsing a policy that is likely to encourage sexual harassment and voyeurism in your workplace? If so that’s a very bold move Glasgowlife.

Encourage, actually encourage.

As opposed to prevent:

I spend a lot of time designing policies and procedures, and what I tell people is this:- Imagine a worst-case scenario occurs. There is an official investigation, where you’re asked “What did you do to prevent this happening?”. Now imagine what answer you’d like to be able to give to that question in that scenario – that’s the starting point for writing your policies.

There are around 2.2 million males aged 13-18 in the UK, no matter how much experience you have with children, with trans people, with trans-children, you cannot absolutely assert that none of them will abuse, or attempt to abuse, the guidance given in a manner that infringes of the rights of other students.

This isn’t about demonising all trans people, or suggesting that any given one of them would act in such a manner. This is about the risk presented by the guidance itself, whether that risk can be mitigated in a manner which is proportional to the potential seriousness of the outcome and whether the risk is, in part or in whole, outweighed by the risks of not implementing the guidance"

Last year two young girls were sexually assaulted (including being filmed) in the women's toilets of supermarkets in Scotland by a 17 year old male transperson (could not have had a GRC)

Summary:
"Katie Dolatowski, a violent male who identifies as a trans woman, was convicted of voyeurism and sexual assault at Kirkcaldy Sheriff Court in August 2018. Dolatowski, who was 17 at the time, had attacked two young girls in supermarket toilets in Dumfermline and Kirkcaldy.

In the first incident on 8 February 2018, Dolatowski had been to the toilets with a carer and was walking towards the exit when a young girl walked past. Dolatowski then returned to the toilets alone on a pretext and filmed the 12 year old child by holding a mobile phone over the cubicle partition. The girl shouted and the offender ran out of the adjacent cubicle. The police later viewed in-store CCTV footage and were able to identify Dolatowski and retrieve a 12-second video clip of the girl using the toilet from the defendant’s iPad and phone, followed by footage of Dolatowski running away.

The second incident took place just weeks later on March 4. The court was told a 10-year-old girl had been inside the toilets while her father waited outside. He heard his daughter screaming and she then came running out of the bathroom saying that “a crazy man with long hair was in the bathroom and had grabbed her face and pushed her into a cubicle, before demanding she take her trousers off.” The court heard that when the girl came out of her cubicle, Dolatowski had shoved her back in and told her there was a man outside who would kill her mother. The girl managed to punch Dolatowski in the face, stomach and groin and escape to her father and siblings waiting just outside the toilets. Her mother told the court that the girl was hysterical after the attack and continued to suffer flashbacks."(continues)
transcrimeuk.com/2019/02/02/katie-dolatowski/

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3329936-teen-films-girl-in-toilet

If you read the above factual case histories and still believe that any male who identifies as a woman should be in women only spaces, then you believe that it is the job of women to accept these assaults, these disadvantages, to suck up the exclusion of women who cannot share spaces with biological males, because to you the emotional needs and freedom of choice of males is always more important than the impact on females.

And this says a great deal about the immense sexism, homophobia and misogyny that you stand for.

Yes Michelle

The apologists we get here make me so damn angry. The males and the females. They are often so blinded by their misogyny that they actually think their position makes them the good guy

I don't think that pp is an apologist, they're just the usual tiresome GF with the poking stick trying to stir up the viper's nest.

If they work for GL I'll eat ma bunnet.

put yourself in transgenders position they've been born in the wrong body

I have enormous sympathy for anyone who really believes this about themselves. It must be awful.

But why does that mean I have to endure males in a female only changing room? Can you tell me honestly Glasgowlife why my feelings, safety, dignity and my legal protections should be denied, simply to facilitate an increase in someone else’s comfort levels?

You need to try put yourself in transgenders position they've been born in the wrong body and the gender they identify as they feel they can’t get changed in that changing room because of small narrow minded people like some of the people in these comments. Please try learn up or educated yourself more you might learn a little.

I’m really tired of people like you demanding women prioritise the feelings of others, particularly males, before our own. I won’t do it, and you shouldn’t ask us to. Women are the most abused, oppressed and disrespected group of people in all of human history. Yes it’s a big statement but it happens to be completely accurate. We are raped, beaten, humiliated, silenced, health needs ignored or minimised, our bodies are argued over by politicians who get to decide just how or if we get to choose our own healthcare and when or how we access that- to this day. We still do not have equal rights in law or in practice. We all experience many injustices and many bodily and health challenges as part of our everyday lives. Yet here you are, telling us that we must centre the feelings of male bodied people when discussing our rights and our privacy, who we undress in front of and who we are exposed to, that to be either uncomfortable or even afraid of naked males in what have been for some time female-only spaces, must make us ‘uneducated’ or hateful. That is really disturbing and sickening behaviour on a feminism board.

My answer is: NO. I will prioritise myself, girls, my daughter, other women, and OUR feelings, our rights and our safety.

How can you be born on the wrong body glasgow

Do you turn up for the dating scan and the sonographer implants the babies brain? Maybe they turn up hungover and screw up occasionally?

Sex is determined at conception. By the sperm
Theres no soul or brain implantation.

Hear hear Jessica!

I will just repeat what I quoted on a different thread:

₩The organised murder of girl children is the greatest atrocity in human history.

It is happening right now, all over this planet, including here in the UK. Those of us lucky to survive to adulthood will continue to suffer oppression on the basis of our sex until the day we die.

As members of the oppressed class, there is no logical reason to give up what little rights we have won against the continued opposition of our oppressors for the benefit of some members of the oppressor class.

We have no reason to put ourselves in their shoes just because these individuals believe that they possess a dis-embodied but sexed consciousness that inhabits an opposite-sex body. That's their religion, not mine.

They should put themselves in our shoes and consider what this is like from our perspective. They can be protected in third spaces without encroaching on our spaces. That they consider it an unacceptable, even hateful proposal that we should wish to retain our rights and therefore offer them an alternative that does just that, is clear evidence of their membership of the class that oppresses us.

So no thank you to your unkind request. I will not put the needs of males before the needs of my fellow females. Not if you call me uneducated, small-minded or hateful. Not if you threaten me, attempt to guilt me or appeal to my female socialisation. Not in a month of Sundays.

So kindly fuck off back to Glasgow Life and let your employers know that we won't accept being treated like second class humans.

I don't think that pp is an apologist, they're just the usual tiresome GF with the poking stick trying to stir up the viper's nest.

Yes, I think that's the most likely scenario.

Yes, when I talked about apologists I was thinking particularly of a different, female poster

I was definitely born in the wrong body. I am really 6”2, blonde with blue eyes. Someone else got my body and I got some old trolls skin-bag.

Oh there's plenty of apologists too, I absolutely agree with that!

some old trolls skin-bag.

I've been assigned this for the past few years LordProf, I wish I could identify out of it!

I wonder if you knew you were born in the wrong body, what would happen if you actually spotted your ‘real’ body one day? Could you demand it back? Or timeshare?

LordProf you just made me snort tea up my nose. Totally with you on that one. And not just the body is all wrong. My face keeps coming as a surprise which is the oddest feeling, but nobody can tell me where this middle-aged woman has come from. And my voice, OMG, my accent, it's all just too weird to be me.

Do you think I qualify as a brave and stunning trans person, too, for just quietly getting on with my life?