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Adult males can now shower with girls at swimming pools

(487 Posts)
TheXXFactor Tue 06-Feb-18 12:15:50

Swim England has issued new guidance about trans swimmers - link here. Some of it is sensible- I'm sure trans people can feel self-conscious swimming, so trans-only sessions are a good idea (though of course trans people should be able to use the pool at other times too).

What's disturbing though is the section on Environment, which says that trans people should use whichever changing room they prefer. 85% of men who identify as trans have had no surgery, so this means adult men showering & changing with women and girls. How can this be allowed under child safeguarding rules? And what about all the women who will feel unable to swim if they have to change with men - or whose religion does not allow them to do so?

AIBU to think that everyone's needs & comfort should have been considered?

EmpressOfJurisfiction Tue 06-Feb-18 12:18:07

I see it says that women who don't feel comfortable in the presence of naked adult males will have to be "educated".

hmm

MonaTheMoaner Tue 06-Feb-18 12:18:23

YANBU.

In this current climate it's all about appeasing peoples feelings with no need for proof but the general populations feelings on this aren't considered because we're all massive transphobes if we're even remotely critical

QuiteLikely5 Tue 06-Feb-18 12:18:25

This is a terrible idea! I don’t want my child anywhere near a naked man after swimming!!!

BrandNewHouse Tue 06-Feb-18 12:20:16

It also says that Transmen should be encouraged to cover up their chests. So no double standards there then.

Awwlookatmybabyspider Tue 06-Feb-18 12:20:22

YANBU. İt seems the only needs that are considered are those of trangenders. As far as rule makers are concerned FucK safe guarding.

Bluelady Tue 06-Feb-18 12:20:27

I suspect women will be voting with their feet and reduced income may bring about a change of mind.

Marvellousmarge Tue 06-Feb-18 12:22:58

Jesus.

As women we really don't count do we? The feelings of 50% of the population has to be second to the feelings of a tiny, tiny minority of men.

If you've got a dick and piss standing up - you're a man. Couldn't give a fuck how you identify. When you've no longer got a dick, we'll talk then.

Somerford Tue 06-Feb-18 12:23:22

I can't understand why this has gained so much traction. I can only judge by my own experience of course but I haven't spoken to a single person in my day to day life who is on board with any of it. Friends and family seem to be unanimously agreed that it's a handful of idiots at the Guardian and on Twitter setting the tone and creating the impression that their bizarre views reflect the consensus. Who the fuck empowered these simpletons and why are we going along with it?

ShutUpBaz Tue 06-Feb-18 12:23:44

IMO If you have a penis you go in the male changing room/toilet/prison etc. If you have a vagina you go in the female changing room/toilet/prison etc.

I don't care what you identify as. Select whichever gender you wish but biology determines which changing room you use. I would not want a man in the female changing rooms and vice versa.

BestZebbie Tue 06-Feb-18 12:23:55

...aren't there already communal showers for men and women together in loads of swimming pools? Granted, because they are communal most people keep their costumes on, but it isn't a totally new paradigm.

BarbarianMum Tue 06-Feb-18 12:24:48

I suspect women will be voting with their feet and reduced income may bring about a change of mind.

Maybe eventually but in the meantime I doubt they'll advertise their great new policy so women/girls are going to be vulnerable and women and girls will have to give up swimming if they won't accept this. sad

londonrach Tue 06-Feb-18 12:25:22

Its not april 1st is it. The world has become daft!

PurpleTraitor Tue 06-Feb-18 12:25:52

There are no male and female changing areas at the three pools we go to anyway. There are just changing areas. And showers. I feel like I’m missing something.

taratill Tue 06-Feb-18 12:27:03

Honestly how can we meaningfully protest against this?
Regardless of general women's rights this decision effectively stops Muslim women from being able to swim at all doesn't it? It's crazy I don't just want to moan about it, what can I actually do to properly lodge my concern?

Sarahjconnor Tue 06-Feb-18 12:27:53

The first time I saw an erect penis I was 11 and walked into a female toilets in the park next to my school. A man, wearing red French knickers, stockings and a bra was sat in the end cubicle masturbating. The police told my mother that men did this frequently and I shouldn't have been allowed in the toilet. When I was 28 a man used a small recording device to film me and my 2 year old DD changing in the changing village of our local leisure centre. I made a complaint and was told nothing could be done. The man continued doing this and was eventually caught by 3 men who had been informed by their sister that he was filming women. The police cautioned him. I know so many women who have these experiences. Why are people pretending this doesn't happen?

Marvellousmarge Tue 06-Feb-18 12:29:06

But Purple traitor - specially built communal changing rooms will be set up in a way that is appropriate for mixed changing . Simply allowing men into women's changing areas is not the same.

Deshasafraisy Tue 06-Feb-18 12:30:12

What percentage of the population is trans? What did they do before? How much will this rule change affect most people?

sinceyouask Tue 06-Feb-18 12:30:50

I can't remember the last time I went to a pool where the showers and changing rooms weren't communal. And most pools offer women only/ men only sessions these days anyway.

Sarahjconnor Tue 06-Feb-18 12:31:29

This also effects poor and homeless women, many of whom use leisure centres to shower etc.

TheXXFactor Tue 06-Feb-18 12:32:20

But trans people will be able to go to male or female only sessions, won't they?

SleepFreeZone Tue 06-Feb-18 12:32:31

I think it’s gained traction becwuse 1) most people don’t think it will affect them so haven’t been keeping abreast of how the law is changing and 2) the government is fucking terrified of this whole thing blowing up in their face they are just tiptoeing around it and hoping that bending to the minority won’t puss the majority off and everyone stays happy. Except once the majority actually realises what’s going on it will blow up spectacularly and fuck knows what happens then.

taratill Tue 06-Feb-18 12:32:39

yes but sinceyouask men will now be allowed in women's only sessions by virtue of the fact that they self ID as women. This renders women's only sessions meaningless.

MonaTheMoaner Tue 06-Feb-18 12:32:45

The issue is not that a small percentage of the population that are trans can use this but since all you have to do as a man to be trans in these rules is say "I'm a woman", it opens the door for any men to use the sevices regardless of surgery/hormones or presenting as a woman.

80% of trans women choose not to have surgery or hormone therapy meaning they look like men and often dress like men. To deny a man who just says he's a woman entry would mean discrimination against trans women.

Basseting Tue 06-Feb-18 12:33:28

My dd is 10 and just beginning to start puberty and become body conscious. We swim at 2 diff public pools both of which have mixed cubicles and mixed showers which are right on the side of the pool and very open and easily observed. I don't have an issue with this.

I would have an issue with anyone with a penis coming into 'women only' changing areas - less observable and women only for a reason.

I also have an issue with local High school having 'mixed toilet' cubicles and a 'disabled / trans toilet' (that no one uses!)

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