If you think mn is strongly transphobic....

[midgebabe]

I find it very unfair to be accused of transphobia when I am not actually worried about trans people as such. I am worried about how bad men might abuse legislative changes . I am worried about giving bad men more opportunities . About how people might be able to pretend to be trans. I suspect this is a threat to both biological women and trans women.

Taking away sex segregated spaces makes it easier for men to commit these crimes. No doubt some men who otherwise would not have the guts to enter a woman only space for fear of being challenged will feel empowered to simply walk in

This ^^. The group who will be most empowered by Self-ID are the blokes who currently lurk indoors with the curtains closed, trawling fetish websites. Why look at porn when you can wander down to your local swimming baths and go into the women's changing room to lurk behind the closed curtain of a cubicle watching real little girls? It might not be happening much in the UK now, but I am genuinely scared that it will if Self-ID becomes law.

I am not remotely scared, threatened, or 'filled with hate' towards transwomen.

It’s also hard as it’s seems genuine trans people might be being lumped in with the ‘fake’ trans, a largely mythical group

That ‘largely mythical group’ is well on its way to making my life hell. I have been essentially hounded out of online and rl political groups for being ‘Truscum’.

That mythical group is powerful enough to be lobbying government and schools. It’s trying to force changes through to laws. It’s assaulting the media leaving presenters and politicians terrified to actual speak biological reality.

That mythical group is no playground and silencing extremely knowledgable women right now.

They don’t seem very ‘mythical’ to me.

When given the actual proof of men abusing unisex places to pervert on women - like the Target store changing rooms in the US, it’s interesting that the doubters never have a come back on that...

And people with the ‘I’m alright Jack’, ‘I’ve never been assaulted so I’ll not bother to take it seriously (or even believe her) when any other woman has’. Wtf is wrong with you? It’s ironic that you’re so preoccupied with being ‘right on’ about what is essentially men’s rights, that you couldn’t give a shit about women’s right to be safe but fuck women when there’s a man to please

No platforming though they certainly aren’t a playground either!

Transphobia on here is making me increasingly uneasy.

The persistent 'othering' of trans individuals, the fear mongering and default to worst case scenario dressed up as 'protecting' ourselves is reminiscent of prewar Nazi Germany or South African apartheid.

Against the wider backdrop of the rise of the far right, it's deeply worrying.

Views like this are always dismissed as not having read the arguments or be clever enough. And the loudest dominant voice wins out.

I have seen three types of comments described as transphobia online:

1. A retweet by a transperson where someone had said they hoped that this transperson got ill and wished them harm (not from here). This is deeply unpleasant and I utterly condemn it.
2. People making comments that are personal, usually about things or people that have annoyed them, or because they are generally like that, or write to rile - eg personal comments about a trans person
3. People raising what are genuine concerns for them about issues that they believe will hugely affect their lives.

The first one is horrible and should absolutely not be happening. The second one is not nice or helpful and I am also against it. The last one is not transphobic, it is a debate, and I believe should absolutely be happening, but appears to have been shut down and/or hidden from many often by bandying around the term 'transphobia'.

Throwing the word transphobia around randomly no longer means anything and doesn't help anyone.

Ffs. I care very much about the rights of prisoners and think the state of our prison system is a national fucking disgrace that we should all be hanging our heads in shame with every single day. I have used prison as the only real life example I have heard of where men might pretend to be trans for some ulterior motive. If a change in the law mean that men who had murdered and raped were allowed to go to women’s prison whilst in possession of a penis of course this would be a ludicrous state of affairs. I don’t believe it’s currently a possibility and neither does my friend who has had the pleasure of working with murderers and rapists for the last 30 years. If they become worried about it, so will I.

I’ve read a few of the millions of trans threads and swiftly jacked it in because I really can’t be arsed to waft through pages and pages of hate and yes, hysteria is the only word I can really think of to describe it.

This is the stuff that really gets up my nose.
Male violence is the greatest human rights crisis the world has ever known.
Women who talk about males violence as a problem that affects women are accused of hate and hysteria.
Increasing the opportunities for men to prey on women and girls is about the stupidest thing I can imagine for women to argue in favor of.

The persistent 'othering' of trans individuals, the fear mongering

That depends if the 'othering' is people saying 'trans people aren't human' or 'trans men aren't women'. One is other information and hate speech and transphobia. The other is just fact.

Sorry, 'other information' should say 'othering'

Truscum why are you sure they are ‘fake’ trans people though?! This is exactly the sort of shit that turns people off from having proper debates. You seem to be confusing trans people with criminal people who might pretend to be trans to commit a crime, and yes that is a largely mythical group.

If a change in the law mean that men who had murdered and raped were allowed to go to women’s prison whilst in possession of a penis of course this would be a ludicrous state of affairs.

You mean like this male murderer with a penis who is already in a women's prison then?

www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/outrage-transgender-prisoner-living-woman-12022675

I have used prison as the only real life example I have heard of where men might pretend to be trans for some ulterior motive.

Ok well now myself and others have provided some other examples outside of prison where this has happened.

Also, rapists and murderers have been transferred to women's prisons. In Australia Noel Crompton Hall raped and impregnated several female inmates after he was transferred. In the US Richard masbruch was put in a women's prisons where according to inmates he has continued his assaults (even though he no longer has a penis). Why would the UK be any different?

The persistent 'othering' of trans individuals...
The subject under discussion is trans identified males, not transgender individuals, and the improved access to women in various states of undress that the changes in law will provide to predators.
This is the straw man transphobia accusation.

Those who are more open minded and positive about trans people are not blind to the fact that men may exploit an opportunity to abuse openings to women only spaces.

But this requires individual specific enforcement measures not a throwing out if the whole equality agenda.

Generally on here, people are gender critical. They dislike self ID and worry about the implications of it.

Some of the most critical posters are trans women and wives of trans women.

I see very little transphobia, though there is a lot of anger at Transactivists.

Many people who proudly claim they are not transphobic, actually discover that they have a boundary which classes them as transphobic. I see a lot of posters saying
'I'm not transphobic, I'm happy to share my space with trans women, they have a hard life, let's welcome them. Of course there are some special situations where natal women should be able to be guaranteed (refuges, smear tests etc)...' Actually, that is what we are fighting for. Those 'special situations' are being lost.

Medicalising gender confusion at the expense of the long term health of children is shockingly irresponsible.

I don't know what the 'straw man transphobia accusation' is.

Rumpled one of the WPUK speakers has worked in women's prisons and has lots of concerns about prisoner safety - the talk can be viewed online I think.

a change in the law mean that men who had murdered and raped were allowed to go to women’s prison whilst in possession of a penis of course this would be a ludicrous state of affairs. I don’t believe it’s currently a possibility and neither does my friend who has had the pleasure of working with murderers and rapists for the last 30 years. If they become worried about it, so will I.

Then perhaps you should actually look into it because that is exactly what could happen.

Already with a gender recognition certificate you can be moved to a prison of your preferred gender.

How to get a GRC is here

At no point does it specify you have to have your penis removed.

"I find it very unfair to be accused of transphobia "

And that is exactly what they want. They play on people's emotions. No one wants to be a racist or a homophobe or a transphobe. By attacking you with these words, they try to undermine you, emotionally attack you rather than your argument. Don't give in.

One of the groups ?prison officers association or similar made a written submisison to the govt stating that increasing numbers of men in prison are coming out as trans and they believe that men will exploit this opportunity.

More information can also be found here in the government report

Rumpled violent men with their penis intact are being placed in women's prisons.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/genderidentitywatch.com/2018/02/27/karen-mark-jones-u-k/amp/

Because Rumpledfaceskin I am very much of the opinion that some misogynistic twerp threatening women online, showing pictures of his erect penis in panties, claiming he can get pregnant, demanding lesbians sleep with him or be branded bigotted, demanding access to rape centres, do shelters, women’s prisons and women’s sport is not ‘trans’.

In my (possibly biased) opinion, transsexual should be used only to describe those who suffer from a diagnosed mental disorder, have surgery as a method of relief and body modification rather than decoration or sexual gratification.

The ‘fake’ trans, the ones that have no interest in altering themeves, demand everyone denies reality, have a great interest in violating women’s rights and spaces...they are TRA’s, MRA’s and do not deserve the protections they get from hiding behind people like me.

sorry tell a lie it was this i think from british psychological society

"“psychologists working with forensic patients are aware of a number of cases where men convicted of sex crimes have falsely claimed to be transgender females for a number of reasons

– As a means of demonstrating reduced risk and so gaining parole;

– As a means of explaining their sex offending aside from sexual gratification (e.g. wanting to ‘examine’ young females);

– Or as a means of separating their sex offending self (male) from their future self (female).

In rare cases, it has been thought that the person is seeking better access to females and young children through presenting in an apparently female way.

Such strategies in no way affect risk and indeed may increase it. Some people falsely believe that taking oestrogen and blocking androgen in males will reduce risk of offending, however this is not necessarily the case.

Consequently the Society recommends that the Government give appropriate assistance to transgender people within the criminal justice system; while being extremely cautious of setting law and policy such that some of the most dangerous people in society have greater latitude to offend”"